Tuning/ TLink help needed...

[Squid4life]

Okay, trying to get this thing tuned correctly so I can finally start playing with Razors PAC alky. I have always had KR, whether it is false or real eludes me. Why it knocks sometimes and not others confuses me. Why it will hit 2-3 degrees of KR at half throttle then go completely away at WOT also confuses me. I need some help here...

I was running rich so it was suggested to drop the fuel pressure a bit so it is now 42 line off. No change really.

Here is some info:

Idle
750 RPM
166 coolant temp
134 MAT
122 BLM
128 INT
TPS .45
O2 832
LV8 38
Volts 13.3
O2 X cnt 0
IAC 11
MAF 5

WOT 3rd gear pull:
3750 RPM
162 coolant temp
98 MAT
128 BLM
128 INT
TPS 4.66
O2 844
LV8 128
Volts 13.3
O2 X cnt 0
IAC 119
MAF 255

On a 2nd and 3rd gear pull I will usually get about 6 degrees right at the start (tranny mount getting ordered, exhaust tailpipe adjusted) then it will drop to 1.1, 0.7, 1.4, 1.8, 2.1, 0.0, 1.1, 0.0, etc. The whole time the O2s are 871, 852, 852, 844, 832, 824, 824, 813, 813, 801.

Am I too rich? I don't want to drop fuel pressure too much lower than the 42 line off I am on now. Should I ignore it and chalk it up to false KR?

New plug wires, plugs 1000 miles old, coil pack ohmed out fine, TPS within limits, O2 sensor new ~1000 miles ago.

At idle the O2s used to jump around, but since I dropped fuel pressure to 42 they seem to stay at or above 800. WTF?



Any help, ideas, suggestions, donations, etc would be greatly appreciated.

I may be able to transfer some TLink files from the cheesy laptop to my PC if someone wants to take a look. Really want to get this damn thing KR-less so I can play with the alky.

 

[Razor]

Your O2's are a little high but nothing to create concern.

Easy way to lean it out is increase boost. That will add more air and lean it out.

The KR in little numbers like that I wouldnt worry about. When the numbers start escalating.. 1..3..7..10. etc.. thats when you need to bail out.

You didnt post if the above runs are with or without alky? If they are without, switch the alcohol kit on.. in a lower setting.. purge it.. then do another run and see if the KR improves with the alcohol.

And until you get issues like mounts, exhuast banging, physical contact of parts handled,, it gets tough.

Post back.

 

[Squid4life]

Thanks for the info Razor! This was with Erics 91 chip, no alky. I was trying to get it sorted out before swapping to the alky chip. I will try upping boost a psi or two, see what TLink says, then swap in the alky chip and turn it on.

Thanks again, I will post back with results.

 

[Squid4life]

Well, I left the fuel pressure at 42 line off and turned up the boost to about 14 1/2. I didn't get a "manual" 3rd gear pull, I had to go from 4th with the converter locked. I got "downshift KR" but it didn't totally go away. I will try another run tonight on the way home if traffic allows. Info from this morning is as follows:
2.39 TPS, CONVERTER UNLOCKS, 3150 RPM, 0.4kr, 840 O2
2.78 TPS, UNLOCKED, 3400 RPM, 7.8kr, 844 O2
4.66 TPS, DROPS TO 3RD, 4475 RPM, 8.5kr, 797 O2
4.66 TPS, 4750 RPM, 2.1kr, 805 O2
4.66 TPS, 4950 RPM, 12.0kr, 797 O2
4.66 TPS, SHIFTS TO OD, 3725 RPM, 2.5kr, 805 O2 (104 mph)
4.66 TPS, 3875 RPM, 5.6kr, 793 O2

Looks like I really am getting KR... Not sure how, with the O2s staying up there. I will make another 3rd gear pass, then try turning on the PAC, see if it helps. I know in the past when I had KR and tried race fuel, my KR got worse. For some reason it KR'ed less on 91 than it did on 108/110. Crazy car...

 

[Razor]

Dont beat on the car in OD. Rule 1 Turbo Buick Transmission

Place gear selector in "D".. get RPM's up to at least 3000 and then roll into throttle, not MASH THE PEDAL.. watch the boost climb and pay attention to your O2's.

Is the alcohol coming down in the alky tank? Are you sure its spraying? If you press the test button the car stumble?

And start fixing the mounts and such that are known bad.

Also DO NOT LET THE CAR DOWNSHIFT WHILE TRYING TO CHASE A KNOCK ISSUE. Sorry for yelling

 

[Razor]

Ohh did I say do not performs tests in OD

 

[Lee_Burough]

I don't pretend to know as much as Razor about tuning, but I did learn most of the tuning dance owning three of these cars.

If your KR is about the same whether you use 91 octane or race gas, my index of suspicion increases for the possibility of false knock. But that 12 degrees of KR at WOT does concern me, big time.

A couple things you probably have already done: Retorque the knock sensor to 14 PSI, exactly; Clean your combustion chambers with GM Top Engine Cleaner; try an engine tie down strap; recheck the crossover pipe and down pipe for possible contact with the oil pan or frame (I know you are already thinking about these mechanical sources of knock).

You may find something on one of these KNOCK - CHECKLISTS.

The biggest help to my car provided by Razor was his advice to use an audible knock detector under the PCM. That detector is on duty 24/7 and gave me a reminder once or twice when I didn't hae the Alchohol flowing

 

[Squid4life]

Yeah, I let off a second after it shifted, but shouldn't have ran it that way at all. Guess I got impatient and wanted to see what the change netted. Kind of hard to get an open spot of road around my area, and strangly enough, harder at 430 am, which is when I was running it this morning.

Alky does work when I hit the test button, but I haven't been using it. I wanted to get zero KR before using the alky. I haven't turned it on for this testing, and am still using the 91 TT chip, not my alky chip.

I will run a 3000+RPM 3rd gear (only) pull this afternoon, see what it says. If O2s stay 750-800+ on that run, does it mean KR is false? If KR stays small and jumps around should I go ahead and start using the alky kit. And, when using the alky kit, only use it with the TT alky chip, correct?

 

[Squid4life]

I agree, the 12 scared me to death when I saw it. I have a Caspers knock gauge and audible, but when I downshift it screams at me and hits red for a few seconds, that is how I missed it/ignored it. I should have known better than to do the run like I did this morning.

Knock sensor is a new Delco unit, at 14 ftlbs, even though many have said to finger tighten it, or back it off until I get no knock. Just sounds dumb to me to do that. I have had this motor apart enough times without bypassing "safety" features. I have a poly drivers mount, getting ready to order a poly tranny mount because I think it is soft/bad. Thinking about the pass side mount as well... My DP doesn't hit, nor does the crossover, but I will check it again. I have adjusted all that not to come close to contacting anything, but you never know. I barely have 5k on this motor, so I would hope it doesn't need top cleaner, but I am more than open to suggestions.

 

[Razor]

I will run a 3000+RPM 3rd gear (only) pull this afternoon, see what it says. If O2s stay 750-800+ on that run, does it mean KR is false? If KR stays small and jumps around should I go ahead and start using the alky kit. And, when using the alky kit, only use it with the TT alky chip, correct?

It better not even be anywhere close to 750 anything. Your car needs 800 on the O2 minimum when chasing a knock issue.

If it knocks with 800 on the scantool and boost is confirmed low.. you have other issues.

Start looking for the other issue.

Nothing wrong with a cheap Advance Auto Parts tranny mount. Get your car as close to OEM GM.. It will work 100% when its 100% GM.

All else, look for someone in your area that can work on the car and is knowledgeable.. pay them for their time.. get it resolved.

 

[Squid4life]

starting to get frustrated...
Did a 2nd gear 3000 rpm+ run, got 14.5 degrees of KR, but it wasn't at WOT, it was the frame before it, going from half to full throttle smoothly. No downshift, no slamming it, just ease from 3k up to shift point easing up the boost. It went from 14.5kr at 2.76 TPS, then next frame dropped to 5.6kr at WOT, then next frame was 2.8kr at WOT. The O2s were 859, 852, 824 for the frames above. WTH?

Next I turned the alky on, tested it, set it on 3, then did a 2nd gear pull. Same type thing; 8.1kr at 2.00 TPS, then dropped to 3.5kr next frame at WOT, then totally went away next 2 WOT frames. O2s were 820, 855, 848, 836.

Turned the alky controller to 4:
2.55 TPS/ 836 O2s/ 2.8 kr
4.66 TPS/ 840 O2s/ 3.2 kr


Any suggestions??????? :frown: :frown: :frown:

I have an RJC powerplate I just got in the mail yesterday, plus a spare coilpack, module, adjustable FPR on the way.

 

[Razor]

Do you hear any audible knock or pinging?

Will the motor shock knock if rev'd in neutral/park?

At low boost levels and O2's in the 800's it would appear there is plenty of fuel. Low to mid 800's is nothing.. a tad rich but shouldnt show up.

have you read this,
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196626

Have you changed your tranny mount? Are you 100% nothing is rubbing or banging against the engine when you get into boost..

Your car shows knock with good gas, low boost, etc. Its either mechanical damage internally(valvesprings, timing chain, cam) or external influence like bad motor/tranny mounts. Can even be TQ converter/flywheel/tranny pump.

My before last motor with a bad thrust bearing would show knock at 2500 RPM's. Some things over keyboards are hard to fix. :redface:

 

[Squid4life]

Never heard anything, but between my audible and my exhaust, not sure I would. Really, I have never heard any ping or knock. And I am very familiar with it from past experiences and working at shops.

Never any knock in park or neutral.

I have read your info in the alky section, many times. Very good info, and I am trying to take it all in to account with my car.

Haven't changed tranny mount, spending time with family right now because I will be gone for a month starting this weekend. (well, at least in the house, not outside ) Was thinking poly but if that money os best spent elsewhere, I may consider stocker. Only reason I stray from stocker is I had new stocker engine mounts at first and they were terrible.

The motor only has ~5k on it, but about ~2k I checked the valvetrain, cam lift, etc, all good to go. Converter is new, with a billet antiballoon plate, etc. Transmission is also new, only ~3k on it.

Within the past 3k I have checked thrust, flywheel, down pipe, x over, headers, exhaust, valvetrain, intake tract, all new vac hoses, all new TB gaskets, new GM O2 sensor, new plug wires, coil ohmed out, new plugs, new cam sensor...
I even removed all my exhaust to make sure nothing was hitting.

I am puzzled why KR got much worse going up to 14.5 psi boost from 13, although I am still rich. Not just over 800 WOT rich, but at idle it smells rich. I can hit 790-800 at idle, or cruising.

Can any of the following make it happen?:
Bad MAF (although mine hits 255)
Bad fuel pressure reg (although mine raises 1 psi per)
Bad coilpack (although it ohmed out)
Bad module (haven't checked...)

Is it normal for O2s to go from 70 to 820 from one frame to the next?