Uh oh, what have I done?

[Black Box]

Got the shift kit, the pressure regulator system, deep pan & bottom feeder installed this weekend. Followed the instructions, kept it meticulously clean. I posted a message yesterday about the location of some parts that couldn't figure out where they went (took out the wrong valve by accident). Got it all put back together, and the parts worked AWESOME. Shifts were very firm, just like I wanted them. Played with the TV a little so it wouldn't shift too hard, and took it out for a ride. Got it to where it would shift around 5K (I had lightened the governor weight a little, because I had the spring pinned last summer after it got thown off during a high speed blast) at FT. Thing was perfect!

Then all hell broke loose.

Coming back from Hooters tonight, got on it on the highway. Punched it at about 65mph, it downshifted and took off like a bat out of hell. It shifted into 4th gear, nice and firm. Got it up to about 130 or so mph. Did the same thing again about 5 miles down the road and when it reached the 3-4 shift point it freewheeled. No 4th gear up shift at full throttle. Let off the gas and drove a bit, everything seemed fine, 4th gear seemed okay. But I kept wondering what the hell happened. I got on it a little, just enough to get it to downshift, and it freewheeled again, but now it was freewheeling in 3rd gear. Pulled over to the shoulder and checked to see that it didn't puke the fluid out. Nope, underside of the car is dry.

Nursed it over to my buddies house (about a mile and half away), it wouldn't shift out of first, and felt like the trans was slipping bad, had to rev it to 2K to get it to move. I kept it under 2.5K rpm. When I would give it a little more gas it would want to take off a little better, but it was clearly still slipping badly. Checked the fluid level, it was exactly where it was before, right at the full mark, and it didn't smell burnt. Also, the car has no reverse. It shifts into reverse but it only freewheels. It feels like it wants to move but won't.

What the hell did I do? The first thing I thought was that the governor spring flew off, but I had Joe Burkhart pin it the first time that happened last summer so I'm doubting it is that. Gonna drop the pan as soon as I can get the car trailered over to my place, and see if there are any parts in the pan.

Anyone got any ideas about what the hell I blew up?

I firmly believe the parts I installed DID NOT cause this, because the trans was damn near perfect until I let my lead foot get the best of me. If anything, I had the TV misadjusted and caused this myself looking for a firmer shift. DO NOT assume that Bruce's parts blew up my trans! Since the trans was working perfectly after the parts were installed, and it didn't fail until I beat on it, I highly doubt that the parts are suspect. This is all me!!

Suggestions please, and TIA
Steve

 

[WE4]

Ok... I would guess a couple things. The reverse thing has me kinda baffeled tho. Through most of your post I was thinking converter, but the no reverse thing clinched it. It sounds to me like you stripped the drive shell. It is the only part that has load in all of the instances you described. but you shouldnt have second gear either. That would be my guess at this point. Call me tommorrow if nobody else has an idea. In saying my parts had nothing to do with it was nice but I suspect they may have. If you had a weak link or a worn part anywhere that you may not have known about, the increased load and YOUR FOOT may have had a contributing factor. See what I started.... Me bad

Ps. But it was rippin huh?


After sitting here thinking, You could have not gotten the snapring in all the way and the TV boost and 1-2 boost may have blown out. Drop pan and see what is in there. That sounds more like it...2K to move? Hrrmmm converter or front pump or like I said PR blew out of bore.

 

[MeanBuicks]

Originally posted by WE4
After sitting here thinking, You could have not gotten the snapring in all the way and the TV boost and 1-2 boost may have blown out.

I'm with you on this one as that was my first inclination when reading Steve's post.

 

[Black Box]

Originally posted by WE4:

Ps. But it was rippin huh?

Hell yeah it was! Those nice firm shifts were like a drug for my right foot! I guess I "OD'ed" so to speak.

but you shouldnt have second gear either.

It doesn't have 2nd gear, it won't shift out of 1st. 1st is the only gear that seems to be functioning.

I'm working on getting it trailered home right now, I should have the pan off by the end of the day. Bruce, I'll call ya when I get the pan off and let ya know what I find. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope it's just the valve blown out of the bore.

Thanks for the input.
Steve

 

[boostedmaxPSI]

I found this post from a search after having a problem with my tranny.

My problem surfaced just like BlackBox's did. My tranny seemed to be fine except with a little 2-3 flare at WOT before this happend. Two days ago I was merging on the interstate at WOT and had to get out of it quick so I down shifted from D to 2 no problems yet! I was only going about 50-60 MPH. I then floored it again only to get a loud pop due to the tranny slipping to 6000K and I loaded up on alky.

So as it stands now I have 1,2 and reverse but no D and overdrive slips real bad. Also when cruising at 55-65 MPH I'm at 3500k rpm in OD.

Tranny fluid is still there and looking red with a hint of brown and seems to have slight burn smell to it.

Any ideas?

Bruce?
BlackBox?
Buelure?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[WE4]

Direct clutch is toast. Something catsphrophic took place in the high drum. If you have movement forward, it is niot the drum shaft or input shaft. But problem will be in the high clutch. Tear it down.


Later: Oops you have reverse? hrmmm..high clutch works that also so hrmm... hrmmm you got a good one.. I would be very interested to see what actually happened here. I still bet something in high clutch but for reverse to work... odd.

 

[Black Box]

I got to taking mine (partially) apart today. Got the VB, the accumulator cover and the TCC valve out and then went for the pressure regulator valves....but they won't come out! The TCC valve came out easy, but the PR valve is stuck hard. Tapped it (veeerrrry lightly) with a brass drift, hoping that it would pop loose, but no such luck. I know there is a pretty stout spring behind there, so I have no idea why this thing won't budge. Couldn't get the pump off, since the PR valve was stuck in there, so I didn't even try. Took the bolts out but stopped there....didn't want to force anything.

How the hell do I get this thing out?

Maybe I shouldn't be f*cking with this thing after all....

Bruce, thanks for all your help with diagnosis in the past week, I really appreciate it. I just wish I could get the damn thing apart...I'm 'bout to give up!

Steve

 

[boostedmaxPSI]

Thanks for the reply Bruce.

I'm on your web site now looking over my options. I was looking to get the tranny rebuilt this winter anyways. I guess now will work.

Here's a loaded question for you Bruce. Is it in my best intrest to send my tranny to your shop or can a local shop do the job just as we'll. I'm in Washington state and was factoring in shipping.

I could however, drive down to CA and bring you my old 2004R for a direct replacement and a new converter. What does a good street/strip unit cost? and do you have those readily available?

BlackBox sorry for steeping in on your thread with my problems. Good luck with you tranny

Frank

 

[Black Box]

Originally posted by boostedmaxPSI:

BlackBox sorry for steeping in on your thread with my problems. Good luck with you tranny

Don't worry about it bro, we are all here to get our trans problems solved....I may learn something from your trans problem. Thanks, good luck with yours also.

Steve

 

[SilverSleeper]

-boostedmaxPSI,

Dont trust a local shop to build a 200...
I took mine about 3 "supposedly good" places before I decided to go with one of Eric Shertz's (Jack Cotton's builder) trannys. Get it done by the people who know it best, or get it done again, and again and again...

Plus... if you are thinking about one of Bruce's trannys, do it. Can't you see the customer service is top notch? Send it to him!!

Good luck on your problems guys. Sounds like what just happened to my buddies 200 behind his olds 455 a couple of weeks back.

 

[HOTTOGO]

Originally posted by Black Box
Couldn't get the pump off, since the PR valve was stuck in there, so I didn't even try. Took the bolts out but stopped there....didn't want to force anything.

I assume from you saying you didn't take the pump off, that you have the tranny out? As that is rhe only way to take the pump off, either way you don't need to take the pr or tcc valves out to remove the pump and once the pump is off you can "carefully" pry the pr valve out. But if the trans is not out of the car then curious about what pump you are taking out?

 

[WE4]

Frank

I got three I know of in the Puget sound area. I just this week got Gary Hoffmans in from northern Oregon. Shipping is not that bad being we are relativly close. If you call me this week I will look into arrangments and see if that will work for you. If you would like to come down, by all means, come on down, and if you bring the car we can dial in here. We can even go to the racetrack and run to test if you so wish. Also Option "b" would be to install in test car (as we always do) and you could go drive it around till you are happy and we will pull out and you could take home. Heheheh... Where else can you "test drive" your trans before leaving with it? LOL Funny thing is, I am 100% SERIOUS.

Lemme know WE4
Bruce

 

[boostedmaxPSI]

Bruce,

I'll call you. A lot of companys can learn from you about the meaning of customer service. I'll let you know what future plans I have for the car so we can come up with a good fit for my GN.

Thanks again,
Frank

BlackBox back to you...

 

[Black Box]

Originally posted by HOTTOGO:

I assume from you saying you didn't take the pump off, that you have the tranny out? As that is rhe only way to take the pump off, either way you don't need to take the pr or tcc valves out to remove the pump and once the pump is off you can "carefully" pry the pr valve out. But if the trans is not out of the car then curious about what pump you are taking out?

Yeah, the trans is out of the car....but I didn't know that about not having to take the PR valve out to take the pump out. Thanks for the info.

I was doing some reading on gnttype.org about 200R4 disassembly, and it says:
"Although there is a special puller for removing the pump, I use a brass drift/hammer(lightly) on the exposed portion of the rear pump body."

Is this an acceptable way to do this (without inflicting damage) without the 'tool'? Sounds sketchy but if it's OK then it's a go.

Back in the saddle tomorrow.

Steve

 

[HOTTOGO]

Originally posted by Black Box
Originally posted by HOTTOGO:
Yeah, the trans is out of the car....but I didn't know that about not having to take the PR valve out to take the pump out. Thanks for the info.

I was doing some reading on gnttype.org about 200R4 disassembly, and it says:
"Although there is a special puller for removing the pump, I use a brass drift/hammer(lightly) on the exposed portion of the rear pump body."

Is this an acceptable way to do this (without inflicting damage) without the 'tool'? Sounds sketchy but if it's OK then it's a go.

Yes the pump can be removed without the tool but you need to e VERY VERY careful there is a couple spot you can actually pry from behind but make absulutely sure you don't contact any machined surface. I hate to even recommend this but can be done but I've also seen ones that have been butchered though. So good luck and be careful.

 

[Black Box]

Cool, thanks Mark. Don't worry I will be very careful....I would rather take an hour to get it out carefully than to hack it out in 10 minutes.

Sounds like you have some nice rides in your garage.

Steve