**URGENT, PLEASE READ** electrical system death

[FlaBoy]

Well, I bought an 85 GN last night, and within 24 hours its allready dead I'm hoping you guys cna help me out here.

I got in the car to drive home from work, and noticed a flat tire, so i get the cig.-lighter powered tire pump out of the shop at work, and plug it in, and start to inflate. The pump works fine. Abot 5 mins into it, I decide to start the car to warm things up for the drive home. I put in the key, and turn the ignition, at which point the tire pump dies, and my car is dead... when i put in or turn the key, theres no lights on teh dash, my headlights dont work, the car doesnt even click, much less turn over... nothing. I didnt have a volt meter to test to see if my battery ahs juice, but it was fine yesterday when i checked it, and started/drove fine this morning. The fact that the cig lighter had power to it just fine until i tried to start the car, and aftgerwards is as dead as every other electrical peice in the car, leads me to believe when i turned the key i shorted something or fried some electrical connection. It has been rainy and cold all day, so I'm assuming water got someplace it shouldnt and shorted something out? My car is stranded at work, which is in a not so great neighborhood, so I need to hopefully get it started and back home ASAP. I'm a very mechancically inclined guy, and my dad is an electrical engineer, so i dont doubt our ability to fix whatever the problem is, I'm jsut unfamiliar with these cars, so I need some help tracking down what the problem might be. PLEASE help in any way you can, ANY suggestions are welcome. Oh, and my dad wants me to ak if anyone has an copy of the wiring schematic for the car on a website or that they can e-mail to me or something. Thanks in advance for all the help. I knew this car would be kinda a love/hate thing, i just didnt realize it would start so soon

 

[DRP]

Start simple, have you tried jumping the battery to start it up?

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by FlaBoy
i get the cig.-lighter powered tire pump out of the shop at work, and plug it in, and start to inflate.

They're only made to fill bicycle tires, or top off a car tire.

You ran down the batter, try charging it.

If you don't have a charger, then jump it to a car with a good battery, and let the good car, run for like 10 mins.. Then start your's. Jumping it to start it will put a huge load on your alternator.

 

[Hognose]

I would start by checking your fuse block as well as trying to jump it.

 

[FlaBoy]

I thought about jumping it, pulled around one of our work trucks with jumper cables and popped the hood. Whoever installed the battery thats in there just used a regular bolt to attach the positive terminal, not a stud-type thing, and the bolt head doesnt protrude any past the plastic ring around it... kinda hard to explain, but essentially theres no place on the battery where i can clip on the positive side of the jumper cables. and the more i thought about it, the more i thought the battery probably isnt dead... it was fine yesterday when i put the voltmeter on it, and I ahd no problems starting it at any point yesterday, this morning, or this afternoon when i was showing it off to poeple at work. I doubt running a tiny air pump for maybe 4 minutes would drain the battery. Plus, the pump had power until the exact second i turned the key, at which point it shut off and wouldnt start up again (the pump itself still works, as i tested it on another car, so that means my cig lighter had power until the exact second i turned the key at which point it died). and also, every single light in the car is dead... even with a REALLLLLY dead battery, i would imagine some of the idiot lights in the dash would come on when i turned the key, or there wuld be SOME reaction to putting in the key and turning it... but the car is DEAD electrically. If i dont get any other idea between now and then, I'll take a multi-meter to work with me tomorrow and verify the battery is in good shape.I was just wondering if anyone knew of something (besides dead battery) that would cause the total death of my electrical system the instant i turn the key? Like i said, my gut is telling me water got osmeplace it shouldnt, and shorted something... but who knows. Thanks for the advice so far, and keep it coming... illt ake ANY ideas

 

[FlaBoy]

Originally posted by Hognose
I would start by checking your fuse block as well as trying to jump it.

What specifically in the fuse block would i check for? Is there some master fuse for the whole car? its like theres flat out no juice to any electtical components, so if theres no master fuse, i would have had to blow multiple fuses at once? Thanks, and keep the ideas comin

 

[Hognose]

Originally posted by FlaBoy
What specifically in the fuse block would i check for? Is there some master fuse for the whole car? its like theres flat out no juice to any electtical components, so if theres no master fuse, i would have had to blow multiple fuses at once? Thanks, and keep the ideas comin

Well, I am no expert, but I would suggest, like DRP said, start simple, I do not know of any master fuse, I was just throwing out suggestions, I have popped several fuses at once before.

My brake light stuck on my car for a short time and I had lost all power just like you. I came back to the car and was shocked that I had no power what so ever. In these cars when you turn the key, it is powering up a lot of stuf, plus the fact you were running an air pump at the time.

I woould be extremely surprised that water was a cause. You had power until that point when you needed to add a lot more power to start the car. If you can have someone hold the jumper cable for you if you can't clip it on, or just pick up a cheap battery and slap it in.

Good Luck!

 

[BOOSTEDGNs]

since you just bought the car double check all the cables battery grounds etc just an idea since it was raining and stuff maybe a ground broke loose at the magical moment anyhow good luck

clean the grounding surfaces too these cars seem sensitive when it comes to this area as well

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Guaranteed you just killed the battery. Yank out the battery if you can't jump it in the car and throw it on a charger for a while or if you really need to get the car out of a bad neighborhood put a new battery in it.

 

[FlaBoy]

Some folks on the other boards have suggested the fusible link in the starter power cable might be the issue? any thoughts? If so, how tricky is this to replace, and would it likely be available at an auto parts store?

 

[Turbo Brian]

Without having the wiring diagram in front of me, I believe that there are three fusable links, connecting at the starter. One was a 14 gauge, and the other two are 16 gauge. They all have loop type ends. Generally, when the electrical system is dead, one of the links has blown.

Any parts store will have replacement GM style fusable links for under $5 that merely need to be crimped in place of the failed piece.

 

[Pronto]

From my experience with dead or dying batteries, they act fine one moment and not light a single bulb the next. That bolt issue you describe on the battery cable is suspicious too. I hate anything thats mickymoused with battery cables or clamps-that's the lifeline for the car to run. For a quick fix I'd just get a battery for now to see if it's the problem. Once you have the car in a save area do a thorough check of the cables and fuses. I'd replace any battery cables that show any sign of corrosion with GM parts. I have had cables look good on the surface and they were all rotted under the insulation. This was on a cable that was cut and new clamp put on. The clamp was just put on the wire. There was a gap between the wire and clamp-no seal. The acid fumes eventually corroded the wires under the insulation.

 

[Razor]

Why dont you go to the parts store and buy the correct bolt to fix your ability to jump the battery.

Either you have bad connections at your battery(Duh since it has the wrong bolt) or you blew something electrical.

Light bulb effect... in the morning the bathroom lites all work.. get home hit the switch one blows out.. why??? who cares.. buy a new 1.00 bulb and move on.

Sounds like your milking this issue for all its worth.. start at the battery and move from there.

HTH

PS, Autozone and Discount will test your battery for free. Want a cheap battery locally.. Electro battery by 28th street. Theyre in the phone book. And dont forget to get the correct NEW battery bolts

 

[GN owner]

The battery is either run down or it just died

I had a problem with my car one time where I started the car and drove it to a friend's house. Stayed for an hour and when I tried to start the car the engine turned for a split second and stopped. The battery had died! I jumpered the battery to get home and bought another battery. Problem fixed!

 

[VinsGN]

I agree with all previous posts. It’s most likely the battery that is the culprit. There are many variables which would cause a battery to die instantly. In your case it sounds like you had/have a dead or dying cell in the battery. Sure the air pump ran fine, but as soon as you turned the key and required additional draw you sucked the life out of one or maybe two of the battery’s already weak cells. Once a cell dies within the battery you can charge it forever and it will never hold.

Additionally, that battery bolt situation you described should strike you as weird. Just my thoughts, good luck.

 

[FlaBoy]

UPDATE

When i got to work today, i checked the battery voltage... 12.5, which seems pretty good to me. So i took off the terminals, cleaned them off with a steel wire brush, and still no joy with the car starting... everything was still dead (lights, et al). So i started checking wires, there was 12.5 volts getting to the starter solenoid, all the fusible links i could find were all okay. So at this point I'm getting very befuddled. I checked the fuse box, all the fuses look intact. Out of frustration I tried the car again, and this time it fires right up with no problem, all lights etc. work. so I think maybe it was just a loose wire or something that i jiggled back into place and drive home. Then tonight, I drove to my local church for the fish fry run by my old scout troop, it starts up jsut fine. When i get in it to leave, it does the samething again. So I start doing the wire jiggling thing again, to no avail. then as I'm standing there lookinga t my car in frustration, all of a sudden the interior lights come on (the door was open) without me or anyone else touching anything. So i get in, and it starts right up. So apaprently i ahve a very random and intermittent problem that causes my car to jsut die electrically..... Any further ideas guys? Oh, and i had the battery checked at my auto aprts store on their machine, they say its just fine, and it looks very new, so besides the weird battery post thing, I think its really not an issue. I'm really quite befuddled... I feel like my uncle and his collection of MGs, 2 of which are almost always out of comission for strnge mystery electrical gremlins. thanks for any and all help.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Interesting. Grounds??

Haunted?

 

[NEWCHAPTER]

sounds like the problem i had . went for a drive about 50 miles all fine. parked the car for about 5 minutes to use restroom came out and the car is dead. checked everything , wiggled everything and then it came back to like again. So i drove back home and on the way stopped at a store got back in and dead again, so i grabbed the pos battery cable and the lights flickered on, the battery cable was just a hair loose... so i would really look at those battery cables again.

 

[DRP]

i've had similar problems before. Since everything in the car is effected, its most likely a main power wire or ground. Like others have stated, check all of the grounds and battery wires again.

 

[BlackBandit]

If it's not your battery it's the fusable links by the starter. One bad ground isn't going to kill the entire electrical system........unless it's the negative battery terminal.