Vacuum Brake Poll

[SVORay]

A relatively inexpensive vacuum conversion can be had from your local bone yard or from vendors like GBodyParts or Red ( for those that like a kit). .

I was checking into this GbodyParts convertion kit and was wondering how complete the kit actually is? Will my stock brake lines plug into the new MC or do I need find some in a bone yard or build a set? And is there anything I should know or need to do to help keep the vaccum up enough for the brakes and boost? Also, I'm still trying to figure this whole S10 wheels cyl deal out, do you all got a link on it or could simply explain it to me?


Sorry but I would rather stop than go fast

 

[RAMAIR1]

I was checking into this GbodyParts convertion kit

That's the kit I got. You'll need to go to the parts store and get a check valve and vac hose. While I was there I treated myself to a brand new brake pedal pad. I also chose to clean up the booster really well and paint it. Other than that you are ready to go. I bought his kit because it was the same price as every other kit available, but also came with the billet vac block. Since I bought mine his price has gone up though. Your current brake lines will match up perfectly.
Stopping is every bit as important as going.

 

[WLDWST]

I just came across this article. Everyone concerned with the brakes on their Turbo Regals should read it.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0405htp_buick_turbo_regal_master_power_brakes_install/

 

[WLDWST]

Ttt

I just came across this article. Everyone concerned with the brakes on their Turbo Regals should read it.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0405htp_buick_turbo_regal_master_power_brakes_install/

 

[SVORay]

Now that artical mentions a Vaccum pump, how important is this part? I mean most of the swap I've seen and kits don't have one listed or installed? Also, does the TTA use one or something simular?

 

[turbojimmy]

I voted PM. I don't really have a rational reason why. My car is a 105k-mile salvage title car and is far from stock. My PM has never really failed in the manner that everyone talks about (hard pedal; no brakes). Mine simply began leaking out the back like a 'regular' master cylinder does. I found a good deal on a low-milage rebuilt unit and popped it in yesterday. Since all the parts on my old one were good except for the cylinder itself I should be good with spare parts for a while.

I do have access to a low-mileage '86 and an '87 Regal for parts. I think I'm going to take the vacuum booster and pedal out of one of them for insurance before they get junked.

Jim

 

[SVORay]

I do have access to a low-mileage '86 and an '87 Regal for parts. I think I'm going to take the vacuum booster and pedal out of one of them for insurance before they get junked.

Jim

I'm in need of a few basic odd ball parts if you'll selling any

 

[WLDWST]

Now that artical mentions a Vaccum pump, how important is this part? I mean most of the swap I've seen and kits don't have one listed or installed? Also, does the TTA use one or something simular?

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0405htp_buick_turbo_regal_master_power_brakes_install/

From the article:
" MP only recommends this pump if your car struggles to keep 18+ inches of vacuum, or if you have a radical camshaft installed. All healthy, stock-cammed TRs should qualify, but my scarred psyche wanted the peace of mind that vacuum will always be there when I need it. The pump will also come in handy if a bigger cam is swapped in the future. "

 

[Quiky One]

You dont need a vacuum pump either.. These cars make plenty of vacuum unless you have no leg strength.

Jason

 

[turbojimmy]

I'm in need of a few basic odd ball parts if you'll selling any

Shoot me an e-mail with your needs. The '87 is white with a gray interior (bench) and the '86 is burgundy/burgundy. There's no interior in the burgundy car and it's hit very hard in the front. The '87 interior was stripped for a demolition derby but was never used for that purpose. Most of the interior is gone but the exterior an dash are in tact. Both are 307s.

Jim

 

[WLDWST]

Please vote if you haven't yet. The poll closes on Tuesday I think. Any stories about failing Powermasters and what you did about it are welcome.

Also check out this article.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0405htp_buick_turbo_regal_master_power_brakes_install/

 

[SVORay]

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0405htp_buick_turbo_regal_master_power_brakes_install/

From the article:
" MP only recommends this pump if your car struggles to keep 18+ inches of vacuum, or if you have a radical camshaft installed. All healthy, stock-cammed TRs should qualify, but my scarred psyche wanted the peace of mind that vacuum will always be there when I need it. The pump will also come in handy if a bigger cam is swapped in the future. "

I've got a 208/208 cam but not sure if that qualifies as big? Anyways, I think I'll go vaccum pump as well..just incase.

 

[nwarky]

Decided to enter the discussion adding my thoughts. Those who prefer to remain stock and stick with the Powermaster, well I understand your thinking but only to a point. I would rather have my original front clip than my original PM system. Those of you who think the PM will give you symptoms before totally failing are wrong! I had a PM fail without any warning. As a fairly healthy and strong adult you are lucky to have 5% of your braking power when the PM fails. I have had two different Turbo Regals that I have converted to vacuum and had no issues with braking power. One car had the system sold by Master Power Brakes out in North Carolina. The other was the system sold by Gbody parts. I found the system from MPB to be rather touchy. I much prefer the single diaphragm booster sold with the gbodyparts system. It does require more leg effort BUT I prefer the feel because I can modulate the brakes better particularly in regular driving. Those of you who are younger and never drove a vehicle without power brakes and steering might find the pedal firmer than you are accustomed to but it is much to my liking. Anyway, just my personal thoughts to share. But I would never return to the PM and worry every time I hit the brake that the PM might fail me again.

Dean

 

[6APPEAL]

Big cam! That's me! I have a vacuum can on the race car with a 224/224 cam, just in case.
John

 

[URSPANKED]

I switched over to vacuum about 7-8 years ago. Never looked back. The brakes work every bit as well as they did before, as far as stopping power. My wife and I were in Austin and I came up to an intersection behind a car. I stepped on the brake and just about filled my shorts. The fuse had blown. That is not a feeling that I would recommend. I did keep the PM in case I want to return it to stock. It still worked fine. I really can't remember why it blew the fuse to begin with.

 

[SVORay]

I switched over to vacuum about 7-8 years ago. Never looked back. The brakes work every bit as well as they did before, as far as stopping power. My wife and I were in Austin and I came up to an intersection behind a car. I stepped on the brake and just about filled my shorts. The fuse had blown. That is not a feeling that I would recommend. I did keep the PM in case I want to return it to stock. It still worked fine. I really can't remember why it blew the fuse to begin with.

This sux, I never thought about a fuse poping and causing brake loss Well it's offical, the Buick isn't going anyone until I get knew brakes! I was thinking of parking her anyways since the gear box is getting worse, but this settles it.

 

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster

I Only Saw One Mention Of The Hydroboost. My Question Here Is; If Buick Thought It Was A Great Idea To Install A Regal Vacuum Booster On A Supercharged Car (which Cost Them $12.00 On The Assembly Line) Then Why Did They Not Do It? The Powermaster Cost Them Several Hundred Dollars At That Time. Supercharging A Vacuum Booster Is A High Liability Factor For An Automaker. The 83-85 Turbo Regals Came With A Hydroboost. No One Complains About Those Cars Boosters Not Working! They Still Work 23 Years Later, Most Are Still Original. The Hydroboost Has Been Stopping 14,000lb Trucks And Motorhomes For 32 Years. Who Here Says It Can't Work? I Don't Understand The Resistance. The Guys Selling Vacuum Boosters Removed From Used Cars Are Not Brake Engineers, They Are Not In The Brake Business, And Carry No Liability If Any Of "their" Brake Systems Fails. I Started The Changeover To The S10 Manual Brake Wheel Cyls In 1986, When I Saw Front Rotors Buring Up. The Power Brake S10's And The G.n.s Came With 3/4" Wheel Cyls. Same As A Volkswagen. The Manual Brake S10's Had 7/8" Cyls To Get Some Stopping Power. The Dealers Sent Me New S10's To Convert To Power Brakes. When We Did The Rear Brakes Would Slide. So We Had To Go The Other Way, And Install The 3/4" We Have Been Building Sensitized Power Brakes For Handicapped Van Owners Using Hand Controls. We Did Not Install 17" Wheels On Dodge Vans 30 Years Ago. It Was All Done At The Booster. Quadrapalegics, Even. If You Notice When You Are Coming To A Red Light, What Do You Do? You Apply Light "pressure" To The Pedal, Get Closer, More "pressure"come To The Light To Lock It Down? More Pressure. More Pressure Is The Only To Stop A Vehicle. Disc Brakes Are Designed "not To Lock" It's Bad On Icy Roads. You Must Have Available Over 1200psi To The Calipers To Make Them Work. The G.n. Was Downsized. The Brakes, The Trans, And Other Components Were Designed For A 6 Cyl. All Of The Brake Components On A G.n. Are The Same As An S10. Is An S10 As Fast And Heavy As A G.n.? No. The Calipers Were Downsized From 2 15/16" As Used On A Chevelle, Down To 2.5" The Pads Were Shortened An Inch. The Rear Brakes Do Very Little. If You Jacked Up A G.n, Ran The Engine Up To 50 Mph, And Applied The Brakes, The Rears Would Barely Stop. The Rotors Take Over 80% Of The Braking, And The Heat.

 

[SVORay]

Don't get me wrong, I understand completely about weak brake systems factory installed. My F150 Harley truck came stock with 345rwhp and 447ft tq and weighs 5600lbs and does 14.8 in the quater. The wheels are 20" and weigh 85lbs each with the tire mounted, this puts those brakes at a machanical disadvantage as well. Heck It's supercharged and if I remember right, It's vaccum boosted also. Now the kicker, the brakes are the same damn brakes on a typical F150 single cab truck that weighs around 600 - 700lbs less with 16-17" wheels. You want to talk about scary, try stopping that thing doing 100mph. I've already warped my brake rotors once. Sure they make a brake upgrade kit for it but who has 2000.00 bux for it? There isn't any questions about Hydro boost brakes working. It's just not cost effective for most people. We're looking at around 150.00 - 500.00 bux on a vaccum kit vs 800.00 bux on a Hydroo boost. In most cases you can look around and find a new vaccum kit for 350.00 plus shipping but a Hydro boost is still around 800.00 bux no matter where you look If someone could get the kits down in price, you would see an increase in Hydro boost brakes.

 

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

Price Vs Value

O.k., It May Seem Like A Chunk Of Change, But The G.n.'s Are All Worth A Lot Of Money, And Still Worth The Safety Factor Of Outstanding Brakes, Not To Mention Peoples Lives. If You Are Heading For A Crash That You Can't Stop In Time, You Can't Call "time Out" It's Too Late. As Far As Money Goes, People Have No Problem Pouring Out Money For Wheels And Tire, Turbo Upgrades, Paint, Etc. Never A Second Thought There. For Those Who Have Had Crashes Or Near Crashes, Put Brakes First. Our Hydroboost Is Not Only For The Buicks, But We Also Convert F150's,250's350's Of Any Year, Suburban/tahoes, Jeeps, Camaro, Chevelle, Mustangs, 572 Powered Cars, Hemi Powered Cars, Suv's With 20" Wheels, S10's With 20's And Air Bags.(when They Drop Them The Tire Hits The Vacuum Booster) Street Rods, (they Don't Hang Below The Frame, And Allow 3.5" Exhaust Pipes Alongside) Anything Turbocharged, Etc. The Ladies Can Easily Stop The Family Hot Rod Which They Could Not Do Before, And So On. Cars Are Being Built At A Cost Of $150,000 Now. Will The 7" Booster At 450 Psi Be A Cheap Way Out On Such A Car? We Have 20 Cars On Display At Sema Next Week With The H/b. We Will Be Doing The "overhaulin'" Show Rebuild There At Sema For The Second Time, Installing A Hydroboost On A 72 Challenger.. Is The Powermaster The No 1 Topic On This Forum? If Not, It Is At The Top. Is Your Life Worth An Extra $300.00? The G.n. Actually Ends Being Capable Of Much Higher Speeds And More Spirited Driving. You Can Put This Car Through It's Paces And Take It To New Limits With Complete Confidence. There Are Some Guys On This Forum That Have Reported Outstanding Results With The H/b.

 

[zeus87gn]

That's Right

PowerBob hit the nail on the head. Brakes are no place to skimp.
It really doesn't matter what type of system is on your car.

It is obviously a personal preference.
I have stated mine.