You can type here any text you want

what happened?

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

jpwalt1987

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
Messages
1,885
well i had just finished building my new 3 1/2" exhaust last week when i started hearing a noise while cranking. kind of a rythmic dull thud. when the car was at idle there was no noise however. i drove it to work later that week and the noise be appeared but only at certain RPM. at first i thought it was the exhaust or downpipe hitting the frame (dp is real close) so i checked all that tonight... all ok. flywheel is tight and since it is a JW piece i seriously doubt it is cracked(it really thick) drained the oil just now and it is shiny. man this sucks. i guess i beat the crap out of the main bearings. motor has right at about 1000 miles on it. girdled, balanced, .002 on the mains and rods, front 3 caps are billet,red line 10/30 oil, was lined bored/honed at a reputable shop. i dont really understand what happened, any ideas?? :confused: i guess i will start pulling it out tomorrow. i used clevite 77 bearings but just the standard series, no H or P series. what brand/ series are people having success with? still trying to think back about what could have caused this problem, any suggestions or ideas would be great. thanks jeremy
 
this is what happened!?!?!?! ouch!

well i got the engine pulled out in about 2 hours. nice night. took the oil pan off and it is ugly. bearing material everywhere. took the girdle off. 75% of the oil pan studs were broken. the #2 main bearing spun and the rest were really bad. #4 had copper flaking off. i have pics if the link will work. check em out and tell me what you think happened. thanks jeremy

http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowseP...er=0&albumsperpage=12&navfolderid=0&ownerid=0
 
suicide six said:
My guess would be fuel in the oil.Sorry to hear this happened.Good luck.

That's what I was thinking. During the first 1K miles, I changed the oil about 6-7 times and one time I went 150 miles on it and noticed fuel in the oil. I changed the oil twice within 50 miles after that to make sure I got it all out because I have seen this with a few rebuilt 5.0s.
 
hey jerryl, i see that you are from houston. can you recommend any machine shop over there? i know houston is littered with performance shops. looks like it is new crank and block time. i still cant get those damn pictures to post correctly. jeremy
 
So the motor used redline synthetic right out of the machine shop? You never run synthetic right away. Run single weight dino oil for a few thousand miles.
From the pics, it doesnt look the same from bearing to bearing. The line hone job may not have been right. I cant tell in the pics, but is the wear the same around the perimeter of the bearing? Is it more worn on the sides of the bearings than the center? Is the block bearing worn differently than the cap bearing. The more info we have, the better idea we could come up with.
They may have done the line hone without the studs or the girdle on the block. The clearances may have been wrong.
FIRST THING- before you do anything or call anyone, get a micrometer and measure every main and rod journal down to the tenth of a thousandth and write it down. Look up the factory number and see where you should be. If they took .010" off the mains, then you should know by looking at the factory number, what it should be now. Match that up to what it really is. Take your time.
Ok. Million dollar question- Did the machine shop glass bead ANY parts on your engine. I.E. intake manifold, oil pan, etc. Alot of times a rookie will tear the motor down and glass bead an oil pan, and you end up with beads all stuck in the grease packed in a corner of the oil baffle. There will be carbon buildup in certain places of the intake manifold, and the rookie doesnt fully clean that all out before glass beading the manifold. Now you have beads embedded in the carbon and dried up sludge. The same will go for the front cover. Most machine shops glass bead all the aluminum parts if they have grease on them. If the parts are not oven baked until the grease is dried to carbon, the beads will embed in the grease and get stuck. They also like to glass bead the valve covers to get the old gaskets off. Now you have tons of glass stuck under the baffle, which you cant see, but flushes out into the motor.
When I saw your pics, I immediately thought abrasive material damage. Wiked87GN bought some ported heads and an intake, which he brought by to let me check out. The porting job was horrendous, and when I looked at the intake, that square bypass channel behind the TB, had grease on the walls and it was coated with glass beads everywhere. He paid 800+ plus for all this and the guy said he had never had any complaints before. I cant imagine how many engines out there have been damaged beyond repair because of the kind of work this guy does. Glass beads are the angel of death for any engine. You would not believe how common this is, and how many machine shops get away with it. They blame the engine failure on the customer who doesnt know any better.

90126a.gif


http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us90126.htm

It looks like alot of scoring from abrasives, but the fact that the front and rear cap bearings are the same, but the centers are different, makes me think that the mains are not true, and you had glass (most likely) pumping through the motor.
Another thing that concerns me, is that the mounting faces of the caps do not like like they have been ground 1000 miles ago, let alone 50,000 miles ago. Is there a fresh crosshatch on the bearing surfaces of the caps?
The second main cap down from the top...the bearing doesnt have the locating tang on it. Did this bearing spin? If it spun, you probably have insufficient clearances among other issues. Clearances tend to close up when its filled with contaminates. You need to take it to a pro shop and have them do a thorough inspection of everything. Just pay the money to be sure what happened and then go after those guys.
 
the engine was broken in for about 600 miles with regular kendall gt-1 10/30. then i switched to the redline oil. as far as glass beading goes... not a chance. nothing was glass beaded. the machine shop line bored it WITH the girdle on and studs too. i was there, i saw it. i talked to RJC and he seems to think it is an oil starvation problem. i turned it to 6000rpm. i did have a problem with an old gen 6 dfi flooding then engine but i corrected that and changed the oil several times to get any gas out of the oil. but i probably washed the rings. i have yet to take out the crank. i just pulled the caps off to inspect. yes the #3 main did spin. i assembled the engine myself, checking and double checking the clearances on everything. this is not my first rodeo. as i find more carnage i will post some pics. later, jeremy
 
well this sucks....

i got the engine torn down the other night and this is what i found. The #3 main was the only bearing that spun but it looks like it didnt spin in the block. the machined surface of the bearing saddle is unscathed. how this happened is a mystery to me. it did however do a number on the #3main cap. the crank looked like it could be turned down to .020 on the mains but after closer inspection there is a spot by the fillet radius that is pretty deep. all the rods bearings and journals are ok. the rod journals just need to be polished. after talking to a few people we/I have come to the conclusion that there was an oiling issue. whether all the oil got sucked out of the pan and was in the top of the motor or the pickup was uncovered on launch. i know there was no clerance issue because i checked everything on a mock up assembly before
final assembly. the #4 main bearing was flaking the copper of as seen in the pictures. i have some new pics at the lnk below in my sig.
jeremy.
 
thanks...

hey jerryl, i appreciate it. right now i am trying to come up with a game plan and some money. not gonna be cheap. thanks, jeremy
 
Back
Top