What is needed to put a 153 (on center) engine into a TR?

R

Real-T

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Hi All,

I had been doing some searches about putting a 153 (on center) engine into a street TR. By Street TR I mean a car that was previously 109 based an has all that is needed for that 109.

So Far I have found that transitioning to an On Center engine may not be that daunting a task and that most (maybe all) things can bolt right up with a small amount of effort.

Here is what I found so far:
- Stock intake will not work so an on-center intake will be needed
- Lower pulley may need to be shimmed about .120" to have the belt line up when the alt/PS bracket is bolted to the front of the block.

The different intake is pretty clear and I would assume the Plenum/TB would all line up as well? Meaning no changes to the up pipe or anything like that?

What about the headers, will stock/stock replacement type headers line up or does the crossover need to be modified? Will the turbo also land in the same spot as stock?

Anything else of concern that would turn someone away from this ?

I'd really like to hear from anyone that might have done this or looked into it.

Mike
 
It's a pretty simple swap. Intake is most difficult issue if you are running Stage 1 prod style heads. You will need a spacer for the balancer and the accessories will all bolt up. I just used a Champion Alt bracket on mine but the factory stuff can be made to work pretty easily and I know guys who have made the AC fit and work. Headers turbos etc all bolt right on not sure about stock headers though, I ran a set of ATRs with no issues for years. Most of the time these parts are all aftermarket when someone gets to the point of upgrading to an on-center.
 
This is great insight and making me feel more comfortable with the idea. I hope others reading this will benefit too.

I have a chance to build up a 153, but the car that is going into is really a street car (maybe done a best of 10's @ 127mph).

It will be overkill for what the car can handle, but it sure would be nice to have something that is strong and can handle anything.

The next question would be.......what does the overall spend look like?

While it would be good to use higher end stuff, can we get away with the caliber of parts (Crank, rods, pistons etc) that would be used on say a 109?

I think the rods for the 153 will be different though so that might be a given to spend more on them.

What about oiling system? Is it as simple as drilling a drainback for the turbo? Would a stock-ish front cover bolt up?

Mike
 
You'll need a Dutweiller style external pickup oiling system to convert that dry sump block to wet sump.
 
Is Duttweiller or TA still making those? I sent a 4 stage oil pump up to Weaver and they asked me a few questions, converted it to a 3 stage and it works perfectly. That was in 03.
 
Thanks Chuck. I am sort of expecting it to be in that ball park since the parts are so specialized. Plus it should be done right with a block that sturdy.

But I am with you in that it is nice to know something that "could" handle 1000Hp and then not having to use near that but be able to drive it home.

I have had my TR since 1996 and it's on it's 3rd 109, 2nd rear-end, numerous transmission builds so I must be either crazy or a hardcore Buick guy to still be in it.....may as well go all the way and head for a 4.1 on-center.
 
Mike, if I were to do it again, I think I'd go the TA route. Probably in the end, it's about the same bucks.
I had several complete on center engines from the Nascar series runners.
Several were bought with the break in oil in them.
I'll piss everyone off...The most expensive one was $5K!
The best one was $1500. Got it from Buck Baker's dad, Mr Buck sr.
Still in the engine shop crate. :cool:
 
TA block is close to $6300 to your door these days and still needs a lot of machine work to be finished.
 
Real-T said:
I have had my TR since 1996 and it's on it's 3rd 109, 2nd rear-end, numerous transmission builds so I must be either crazy or a hardcore Buick guy to still be in it.....may as well go all the way and head for a 4.1 on-cente
Click to expand...
That's along time I feel you😉
The tranny parts are much better now though and so is the ability to properly tune the cars.
10s is alot easier to do reliably these days.
You dont need a stage motor or even a stout 109 to do that.
So if your trying to revamp the entire car for 10 sec power I would just say get another 109 done right and save yourself alot of time and money
If your itchy or want a stage motor and want to go down that path I understand that too
I have both personally but I like to race🙂
 
As far as blocks go
I cant in good conscious tell anyone to get a 7500+ block alone to run 10s.
There are and have been several 109s that make 900/1000 hp and can do it for a pretty good amount of time barring the usual stuff that can take out any engine.
You wouldn't even need to be close hp wise to run into the 10s that can be done on far less power,far less hard parts,far less supporting high $ mods.
 
Chuck Leeper said:
Mike, if I were to do it again, I think I'd go the TA route. Probably in the end, it's about the same bucks.
I had several complete on center engines from the Nascar series runners.
Several were bought with the break in oil in them.
I'll piss everyone off...The most expensive one was $5K!
The best one was $1500. Got it from Buck Baker's dad, Mr Buck sr.
Still in the engine shop crate. :cool:
Click to expand...
Damn
I wont tell you how much my stage 2 costs
I had 3 built 109s motors for less then my one stage 2 on center costs🙄
 
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