what is wrong with my car

[Cleaner13]

ok I finally made it to the track with my new combo (check sig)
my car feels fast, but it doesnt feel fast as it should be considering my mods
I would think I would have at a minimum an 11 sec combo
however the car just doesnt feel that fast

I went to the track and ran a 12.6@110mph
my 60' was a ****ty 2.045 or so
I know what everyone is going to say ,its going to be either tuning or get the 60' down
however if you check the mph that doesnt seem high enough
there are guys out there running hella faster then I am with lots less
Im running 23psi with no knock, I did find out after the track that my 02 sensor was bad and I replaced that yesterday and the car feels alot more responsive to the accelerator, could that be something that would hold me back?

I dont know what to do anymore I have so much $ in parts and so much time in tuning and Im just not getting results that I expected, its actually pissed me off to the point where I am thinking of selling the car if I cant get what I am after and opting for a Z06
someone please help cause I love this car to death and I never want to sell it, but if I spent that money just to run 12s then I am very disappointed, I just cant release its potential

thanks guys

Carl

 

[Weazel]

The O2 sensor could definitely have held you back. If it's bad, I think the computer probably goes into a sort of default mode, and runs way rich. That'd rob power which would affect your ET and MPH. Anybody confirm? I know that when the O2 sensor went bad in my Probe GT, I got significantly worse mileage paired with far less power. A winning combination!

Your 60' sucks, work on that (sorry, couldn't resist). Seriously though, what were you launching at for boost? Did you notice any lag off the line? 2/10ths off your 60' is 3/10ths off your 1/4 ET.

Did you have a laptop scantool hooked up during the run? Any O2 readings? What was your 1/8th MPH and ET? You manually shift? Did you let it go into OD? Lock the convertor? Any other info?

Anyway, NOBODY is happy with their first trip to the track. How much fun would it be if you were?! Don't go dropping $30-$40k on a Z06, for $300 or $400 you'll be blowing their doors off.

 

[MSDGN]

I went high 11.9's at 110/111 MPH so you are there...get the 60 ft down to around 1.7's or better...also try some more boost
and then tune it!...run as lean as you can without knock...

 

[Chuck Leeper]

My $.02 worth

1.By "backing into" the trap speed, it indicates that the car "should"run the following numbers.
A. 60' 1.60
B. 1/8th 7.60
C. 1/4 12.00
As has been said, poor short times is the reason for the poor et.
More MPH is going to depend on getting more HP to the ground.
The O2 sensor is out of the picture once the throttle is at WFO.
Someone asked for data log info. Got any??
Could be the poor short time is due to:
1. Being too fat
2. Alky coming in too soon and/or too much volume.
3. Suspension and/or tires.
4. DITCH the snubber!! NO PLACE for that on a 4 link car...
5. Ditch the ft sway bar. It will contribute to poor pitch rotation, and thus low wt transfer.
Other ??'s
Where does the trans shift?
What's the finishline rpm?
What kind of gas are you using?
Need complete data log info to go further.
What shape are the tires in?? How old??PSI??

Don't get pissed off at the car.. it just needs to be sorted out more....

 

[Cleaner13]

ok let me try and answer as many as possible and thank you for all your quick responses

I launch at about 4 psi, anything more and the tires break

there doesnt seem to be any lag taking off

my 1/8 was 8.222@88.26

I did not manually shift, and I do believe it went into overdrive(it would have to right? at 110mph can you still be in 3rd?
the converter was not locked either

timing is set for 23 degrees low gear and 21 degrees high gear
fuel pressure is at 45psi line off
car weighs in at 3878lbs with me in it, and no Im not fat I weigh 180lbs
no scantool other then scanmaster, the car seems to have a shift knock around 54mph

I dont have a data log but I can answer some of the questions

dont know where the trans shifts but it was shifting late,
gas I was using is 93 octane
the tires are in fairly good shape, they probably have at most 2000miles on them, they had 20psi in them

 

[Cleaner13]

Chuck Leeper

by the way
what the hell do you have done that your trapping at 133? thats where i wanted to be at in the future


do any of you guys think the turbo is holding me back at all?

Carl

 

[Weazel]

There's no way that turbo's holding you back, they're good deep into the 11s.
Knock at the 2-3 shift is typical, as long as it's not too bad that's not hurting you. Should be closer to 60-65 mph though before you're going out of 2nd (like 5k-5200 rpms in 2nd gr with your tires and rearend is 60-65). Based on your 1/8 mph though, you're not going into 3rd early, that's a fast 1/8 mile trap speed. I ran about 82mph for an 8.35 with a sub-par 1.88 sec 60'. I think it's all about the 60', your MPHs are good for high 11s so I don't think it's lack of power. If alky is coming on early it could hurt you off the line by drowning the spark before you're making any major boost. I set mine to come on around 13 psi. You know when yours is kicking in?
Also, that turbo is just barely in it's sweet spot at 23 psi. Crank her up to 25-26, and add a little more alky (but not before 12-14 psi or so) and that car will rip. Nothing's holding you back, you've got the gear, you just gotta work with it. Don't worry, the ETs will come, then you can crank the boost up a little more and be running high 11s all day like it ain't no thang.

 

[TurboDave]

Cleaner13

Chuck made some real good points. I'll try and amplify a few, since I've finally been able to get my MPH and ET where I was aiming for so long.

As has been said, ET all about traction and 60's times. You'll not see much with the tires you're running. I doubt they'll be able to handle a 10# boost launch, which BTW is about what it'll take to get you rolling toward your 11 second times.

As for MPH, that takes HP. You've got the parts to run easy 120mph runs. Just got to get the car tuned to do it.
OH, and BTW you probably wont realistically get there running only 23# of boost and only 23º of timing.

I've been successful with consistently running 11.7's-8's and upwards of 117 mph on only the parts I have (sig.), but you gotta run hard to do it!!!

At the track, I run pure race gas(I don't fiddle with alky or any other stuff), 114 octane or better!
I also set my timing up to 28º, my boost is cranked up to 25+#, and I need to be able to lauch at 10# of boost (takes good tires, and a sticky track)..

You aren't going to just throw parts on a car and expect to blaze to record runs, it takes time, and tuning (on any car, but especially these).

So don't be too discouraged. It takes time and effort. You've got most of the parts, just get the tune.

GOOD TIRES, Launch hard, and DITCH THAT DAMN PINION SNUBBER!!! They have NO PLACE on a 4 link car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Personally I still run with my front sway bar installed, but that's a matter of preference. The tests I did on my car yielded NO improvement at the track with it removed. Others have had different experiences maybe.

 

[aperrego]

I am no expert but here is my 2c..

1st 60 ft is critical.. I don't know what your combo "should" be in terms of best times but there is a guy here with a completely stock GN with the exception of a T60 and a bit larger injectors that runs 11.5. But he has tuned it over the years and has done quite well.. SO TUNING TUNING TUNING>

But you may be like me.. I am building a mid-high 10sec combo.. But hell the way I drive I will get there in probably mid12s first couple times to get the hang of things and to do some last minute on the fly tuning..

I know this was probably a useless response.. but I have nothing better to do at this moment..

 

[Chuck Leeper]

133??

Cleaner asked:
"by the way
what the hell do you have done that your trapping at 133? thats where i wanted to be at in the future "

The story there is I have a 9 sec car and a 12 sec driver!!
Have been lucky to a point tho.. 6.47@108 in the 1/8th.. I get scared and backpeddle after that!!

 

[turbo buicks]

chuck leeper, did you ever put that suspension relocator on? if so just let me know ill email you about it, dont wanna mess up carls thread.

 

[86brick]

Re: 133??

Originally posted by Chuck Leeper
Cleaner asked:
"by the way
what the hell do you have done that your trapping at 133? thats where i wanted to be at in the future "

The story there is I have a 9 sec car and a 12 sec driver!!
Have been lucky to a point tho.. 6.47@108 in the 1/8th.. I get scared and backpeddle after that!!

Just put some Depends on Chuck and you will be okay for that 9 second pass

 

[turbo buicks]

23 psi with carls heads is probably like 25+ psi on stock heads.

 

[NJTurbo]

Carl,

Put some real fuel in it like 110-C16, get a good chip for the higher fuel from a guy like Eric Marshall (TurboTweak) get boost at about 24-27, and get some good 60 foot times and you are where you want to be. You could buy a Z06 and have horrible 60 foot times and be in worse shape and you would have spent 40k plus

You have the combo to get there no problem. The fun starts with trial and error with getting the car to leave hard good traction and proper tune. Good luck do not give up. Listen to Chuck and Turbo Dave. Your answers are there....

 

[UNGN]

#1 Race Gas.
#2 Race Chip
#3 Lock The Converter
#4 28" Tall Tires (definately not 275/50 nittos)
#5 Right Side air bag at 25 PSI
#6 Keep the tires CLEAN

Do the above and you will run 11's.

 

[Cleaner13]

hey thanks alot guys
I really appreciate everything and all the info you guys got for me

travis hows your car coming? I havent talked to you in awhile so I dont know how far you have gone with your Stage 2

thanks

Carl

 

[NJTurbo]

Originally posted by Cleaner13
hey thanks alot guys
I really appreciate everything and all the info you guys got for me

travis hows your car coming? I havent talked to you in awhile so I dont know how far you have gone with your Stage 2

thanks

Carl

Car is coming along very good. Just got my V1 Front Mount
S2 Engine is going to machine shop next month. However i switched up my combo on my 109 block and I am really happy with the results, should be in the 11's if this damm rain ever stops.