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What's a Stage Motor Cost???

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Originally posted by LikeMy6
Well since everyone is throwing in about every possible high$$ combos here.I'll chap some butts and throw in a budget buildup!:D
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I agree almost completely. However, I would argue a Stage-1 offcenter block would be slightly easier to build since it's has the OEM style prep work. (oiling is the same as stock). Steel caps are a good idea too since stage-1's use cast 2-bolt mains.

Also, I would recommend 72# to 83# injectors and a 72 to 76 size turbo.

Since you're running GN1 heads, make sure you use the 14-bolt style and use all the bolts. :)

If you can afford it, a steel crank and rods aren't a bad investment. In a full weight GN like mine, running alot of low 10's on production parts would worry me.

-Mike
 
This is totally not based on any fact or research, and is purely my opinion... having said that...

Putting a production crank in a stage block is just not a good idea theoretically speaking, but its understandable. However, not if you're going to use 14bolt heads. Chances are, you WILL WANT the headgaskets to be the weak point of the engine, because thats the only thing keeping the crank in it. If you use 14 bolt heads and have any problems leaning out the engine, I would think you're pretty much gaurenteed to scatter your crank all over the track along with pieces of the bottom of the block. IMO 14 bolt heads and 'Forged Crank' go hand in hand. I can understand the fact that money doesnt grow on trees, but the bottom of the motor is just not the place to save a few dollars... especially when the difference between a steel std/std motorsports crank/rods and a used std/std stock crank/rods is less then 2000 dollars. It would only take 1 "big boom" to make up that cost.
 
IF the factory still offered the 3.8 off-center stage II for what they costed new at the time, I would build a 3.8 stage II with all the OEM parts, including cam, and run 14 bolt aluminum heads. That would be a great "stock" engine replacement, and not for a heck of a lot more. I believe the 3.8 Stage II was around 700 bucks new back then.

While I am dreaming here, It would have been great if they just built them this way, I wouldn't think it would have costed that much more, considering the production #'s made.

O.K. Back to reality.
 
My stage 2 buildup has a stock rolled fillet crank in it. I did purchase a steel crank that was supposed to be good, but when i mag tested it they said it was cracked bad. So having spent my crank shaft money already I went with a std stocker, by the way i had the steel crank tested at another place after i built the motor and they said it was fine.:mad: My plans were to run low 10s or high nines anyway. The rods are 6.5 steel crower rods. The stage 2 heads and headers where cheap so thats why i have them. I'm keeping mine under 700hp. I will be dynoing the combo just to be on the safe side sometime this month. I'm not sure about the steel crank. What should a person do? Thanks Tim
 
Well your already in the 10s now dont go over 700HP and keep the RPMs down especially under 6000,and it should be OK.Maybe Jay Carter will chime in and tell us how fast he got his alky test mule w/t the stock shortblock.last I heard he had it around 10.4s,not 100% sure tho. and thats with stock main caps!also Kent Rubeck was going 10.20s w/t a stock shortblock and a 200/200 club cam,stock caps as well! and as I stated above Orlando Granada is running 9.90s-10.os w/t a stock shortblock - the cam and chain,stock pistons and caps as well!:eek: and has over 1 year in doing it how I dont know:confused:
Tim is your assembly balanced correctly since you didnt use the steel crank? hope so.
 
The bottom end was balanced by a machinest that has done several stage combos and alot of buick turbo v6 motors with good results. I'm also going to lighten up my car to about 3000lb to make it more reliable. I'm guessing that it is pushing about 575hp right know. 3500lb @ 128mph in the 1/4 mile. What i don't understand is when they say 700hp is the limit. Are they meaning at the rear wheels or at the flywheel? If thats at the flywheel then I'm already at my limit with only 15lb boost. Just let my know. Thanks Tim Oh by the way 128mph is my new best mph
 
Actually youre only making around 570-580HP at the flywheel for your time&speed @ the weight you have listed,that dictates about 460-480Hp @ the wheels so you are fine! as for highest 1/4 mile speeds for a stock crank Ive seen mid 130s so you have about 8mph to go before you reach the fastest MPH for a stock crank! which @3600LBS would dictate 700HP @ the flywheel..:cool:
I will also add If you could make this amount of power below 5500RPM the crank will last 10 times longer.because there is no counterbalance betwen the 2nd-3rd throws,which allows crankshaft flexing above 5500.
also on the cars weight if you were to lower it to 3300LBS w/t you in it @700HP you could achieve a possible 9.8@140MPH,just keep it from knocking of course.
 
I found a semi-complete s2 on ctr engine. So far, it looks like its only missing rods and pistons,and the crank spun some rods and got hot, but hopefully ok. Its got 2 complete sets of aluminum heads, and 2 carb intakes.
The block is a 4 bolt, w/ cross drilled mains, 25500153. Cant get no better than that :) ...for an on center
So far, it looks like i can get it for a steal. If i go that route, what other parts or problems am i lookin at 'cuz its on ctr ?? Sorry to be so vauge, but i dont know squat about s2 stuff. I just happend to be at the machine shop talkin about a stock engine rebuild, when he points up on the self to this and say's " why dont u run this??
Block is .030 w/ no ridge. Pistons and rods are $1200, and what, oiling and pan is another $1500 ?? hmm, $2700 there and what the block would cost(if the cranks good)??:confused: hmm..That would be cool :cool:
 
As for the stock crank in a StgII block I wouldnt agree. (I have no experience with the Stage motors) I think the correct way to do a "Budget Stage II" would to build a hell of a bottom end and "Skimp" on the top end, that would limit your HP but you would have an engine that will never blow (not counting the stupid things we are all capable of) and still be capable of low 10's/high 9's. This is what I think the original post was trying to imply, just because you put a stage motor in you car, doesn''t mean you need the best heads and roller cam you can buy, if it is possible to run 9.90 on a stock block, it is certainly possible with a stage 2 with iron heads and a flat tappet cam.

Just out of curiousity, anybody got a stage 2 with all the $15000+ parts that isn't in the nines? Its already been on a stock block so why cant you do it?

P.S. I only run 12's on my stock block.
 
Dont know if that was a loaded question or what but if somebody has $15000 in amy engine and it doesnt run un the nines there is a serious problem. Alot of the $$$$$ spent is for relibility, I personally dont feel a stock block with stock crank,rods,etc is anywhere near reliable at all in the 9 sec range, it would only be a matter of time.
 
I dont know of anyone running 9.s period with production heads. It took aluminum heads for those production blocks to dip into the 9.s and shortly after the blocks were damaged.Its truly amazing what the stock rotating assembly can handle in a perfect running TR. I personaly would go the expensive route for durabilities sake, I only stated what is possible as well as cost effective providing you are able to maintain a perfectly tuned car. the stock rotating assembly w/t production P&P heads and a flat tappet cam is good for a reliable 10.2-10.3 sec car. The original question never mentioned running 9.s or faster.
 
Ryan Guy went 9.9 =)

Ryan Guy went 9.9 @ 135.
He had production iron heads!
 
John L

Bill,

Tell me more about John's combination please!
 
Thanx guys, Now I know of two that went 9.s.:p
thanks for the heads up!
 
Hi John,

3.8 stage one block, .020 over. 3.625 crank, 6.200 rods, I believe J&E pistons with gapless Total-Seals. Champion iron heads & Champion ported stock intake, KB 70mm. thorrtle body & upper, ATR headers & down pipe , PTE 72 turbo , Spearco liquid intercooler , DFI , backhalfed with ford 9in. an 4.10 gears I think. Not sure of tire size. PTE 218 cam.
The GSCA newsletter had a small article on it when it ran 10.00 with small tires & stock chassis. He later changed to M&A heads and only dropped to 9.30`s. We believe it was just out of turbo.


Bill
 
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