Why is it so damn slow

[Jerryl]

........ maybe it was only me being hopeful earlier but damn its still sloooowwwww. Not a 14.0 car............

Dumb question.
Is she slow from a start, i.e. , does she pretty much "falls on her face from a dig", or just slow down the 1/4?

 

[JDSfastGN]

Well heres an update. I made a couple of changes both seem to have helped. I recieved my chip from Turbotweak and the car runs a whole lot better down low. I also installed my 87s old coolant fan (even on high it still seems to creep up in the high 190s after a few hard runs) Its slowly getting better and im going to start playing with fueling in the chip as well as turning down the fuel pressure. I do remember running as low as 36 line off with no problems in the past. Slowly its getting somewhere though.
Jerryl i would say its overall slow from any point, stop, slow roll.... sometimes it does ok up top and other times it seems lazy and seems to lay down.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Well ive done a little bit of tuning and a few other small changes. i had to replace the donut gasket i was running on the downpipe. While removing it i found that the metal instert inside the donut had come loose and been stuck cockeyed in the opening of the DP. Fixing that did seem to make a small difference as well. Most of my testing has been done in the cool night air and after hitting 214* on a 70* day after a few runs i decided to pick up an Fbody aluminum radiator to combat this. The car seemed to run a lot harder on the first few pulls before it heated up anyways. I tried adjusting the TT chip (u unplug the MAT and use the AC controls to change settings) well for some reason the ecm isn't reading the AC being turned on wont change anything. So i checked the AC fuse and it was fine so i plugged it back in. Turn the key and the powermaster motor randomly runs non-stop lol. It still boggles me how these cars are linked in stupid ways electronically. So after playing with it for an hour i finally found the culprit to the pm motor running. The AC relay. Replaced it and the pm works fine again. So i still need to figure out why the ecm doesnt see the AC switch being turned on and install the new radiator. But overall the car is starting to come around. I still think the stall is a problem but for now im gonna have to try and tune around it.

 

[Jerryl]

........... Most of my testing has been done in the cool night air and after hitting 214* on a 70* day ........

Nothing like a 70* day in the middle of winter. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[JDSfastGN]

Nothing like a 70* day in the middle of winter. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

hell its 80* today... its rediculous. Last year we actually had accumulated snow on Christmas eve. This year it was 75 and humid

 

[Jerryl]

hell its 80* today... its rediculous. Last year we actually had accumulated snow on Christmas eve. This year it was 75 and humid

Yep, remember last year! I was in your area (Galveston) this weekend and it was absolutely gorgeous weather! Sure beats my old MN winter days!

 

[JDSfastGN]

Yep, remember last year! I was in your area (Galveston) this weekend and it was absolutely gorgeous weather! Sure beats my old MN winter days!

Haha i feel stupid i didn't even look at your location. Good to have some more guys from Houston on here. Have we met before and i just have a horrible memory? What part of town are ya in?

 

[Jerryl]

........ Have we met before and i just have a horrible memory? What part of town are ya in?

Don't think we ever met. SW Houston, Sugarland area.

 

[JDSfastGN]

no kidding i grew up in westbury/bellaire on the SW side. My parents moved out of town out toward Bellville so im not there too often other than to hang out with old friends. Maybe ill see ya around.
On to the car... i installed an Fbody radiator today and along with a few tweaks in the chip and its really starting to come around. The car never gets hotter than 167 now and tommorow im probably gonna try to turn the boost up to 16-17 and see if it knocks at all. 02s are in the 820s right now at WOT with 14-15 psi. The pegleg doesn't get much traction in 1st and low 2nd any more and thats a big improvement from before. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions yall.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Well this is going to sound pretty stupid but i found a huge problem on it that has been hindering the car for quite a while. For some reason there is no vacuum (or boost) getting to the fuel pressure regulator. I don't know why the 02s were ok, (although after being the passenger in the car and actually looking at them they were all over the place at WOT.) Well today i hooked the fuel pressure gauge up and noticed there was no difference between line on and line off. So i T'd into the boost line that come from the port on the front of the intake and took it back out. Wow the car pulls so much smoother now that it has fuel pressure haha . I have no idea how i haven't blown up the car or seen(or heard)crazy knock readings (although i think the knock sensor went to crap a day ago as all of a sudden i get 0 even on the hardest downshifts where as it used to false knock a bit) Anyways im pretty sure when the manifold was off while i ported it a dirt dobber (wasp looking insect) made a nest in the vacuum port on the back of the intake. As soon as it cools down ill take a look at it. Thanks all, and hopefully now i can do some real tuning and get it where it should be.

 

[Jerryl]

So, How is that 85 running?
What did you end up doing?

 

[zeus87gn]

Maybe?

Hey guys, I know you have been working on this for a while, and probably done just about every check you can think of on the motor, but I was cuirous....

You say it is slow out of the hole, does better once it gets going and is 'like a freight train'. I was wondering, what GEAR is in that peg leg? I'll be it's in the neighboorhood of 3? That could be slowing you down.

Just a thought.

 

[JDSfastGN]

hey guys, well not too much to update, the car runs and drives around great. still kinda slow out of the hole, and the topend is about the same. Ive played around with it and come to the conclusion that it needs a new converter. There is something that is just holding it back, the tune is right on the money 17 psi with no knock, but something just seems to be holding it back. hard to explain through typing. I will be hooking up the direct scan from my 87 when i get home later today (spring break) and seeing what it says. But overall my bet is that the converter is soaking up a whole lot of power. Later down the road i may install a new 204/214 with new valve springs as well. But the car is a very nice cruiser that may manage a high 13 for now.
Zues it is a stock 3.42 open rear. It does have the power to spin the peg leg at the top of first. some days the car feels a lot stronger than others :biggrin:

 

[zeus87gn]

Zues it is a stock 3.42 open rear...some days the car feels a lot stronger than others :biggrin:

Oh well, it was just a thought.
Maybe it's possessed?
J/K

 

[JDSfastGN]

Oh well, it was just a thought.
Maybe it's possessed?
J/K

naw thanks for the suggestion though, it may well be possessed lol. Hopefully i can get it a little better this week by tuning, but i think we may order a Fuddle converter (heard great things from ls1 guys) and install that and see what it does.

 

[6SENSE]

Was just thinking. What head gaskets did you use? The 84/85 blocks are not decked like the 86/87s but with the same heads so if you use a thicker head gasket like the 86/87 you will lower the compression ratio which can make it a bit sluggish taking off. I know
Any exhaust leaks that would cause slow spool?
Running rich on bottom end? (Chip? Translator misadujsted?)
Too much FP? (hotairs tend to like a bit less static FP than the 86/87s)

 

[JDSfastGN]

Was just thinking. What head gaskets did you use? The 84/85 blocks are not decked like the 86/87s but with the same heads so if you use a thicker head gasket like the 86/87 you will lower the compression ratio which can make it a bit sluggish taking off. I know
Any exhaust leaks that would cause slow spool?
Running rich on bottom end? (Chip? Translator misadujsted?)
Too much FP? (hotairs tend to like a bit less static FP than the 86/87s)

I'm honestly not sure what was used. My dad had the motor built way back in the early 90s and does't remember. I think they are the stockers but not sure. Spool is quick, but that power just doesn't seem to be making it to the rear. I have a new TT chip made for this setup that helped a lot, and the MAF translator is all setup right. I may drop the fuel pressure down some (40 line off now) today. I'm fixing to go replace the VSS green box so the mph will read and then take it out with direct scan hooked up. Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[racemybuick]

ever think of putting in a posi? I picked up my LC2 car a month ago, and it came with a stock regal rear with the 308 in it...felt fast, but still sluggish...after a couple simple mods, i thought i would feel a difference....Not much....but as soon as I swapped out rear's to the posi 8.5, it feels like a rocket! I have some bad wheel hop and some rear sway, but that is from my really crappy bushings and stock control arms....I am definately going southside in the bear future, as soon as I get my tuning done right.....

With regards to your combo....I have read, and re-read this thread at least twice over, and I keep thinking the same thing....you need better than 2800 stall, and if you are going to run higher stall, you should throw some type of posi in there! it would be a huge difference...let that 63 open up! after that, the cam should be on the hit list....Just for a side not, did you ever reference your BLMs? I dont remember seeing them....how is your oil? I switched to 10:30 synthetic, new O2 sensor, and another huge difference in my car reactions....my car was running way too much fuel open loop, at idle i was hitting 162 on the blms!!! i was turning my oil to fuel!! So, new O2, new oil from mobile 1, and again, it feels even more powerful, with only 12 lbs of boost on a leaking header!!! i am testing tomorrow night for my first 1/4 in 5 years in a TR, but I will let you know, and that will be my basis to go on from now on....I know I have a few other mods to do as basics, but I gotta start somewhere, and by setting my goals, and making this car run right from the start, it can only get better, faster!

Get your converter, and i think a posi, and see how it feels....i dont htink that peg-leg is cutting it anymore!

John :biggrin:

 

[JDSfastGN]

ever think of putting in a posi? I picked up my LC2 car a month ago, and it came with a stock regal rear with the 308 in it...felt fast, but still sluggish...after a couple simple mods, i thought i would feel a difference....Not much....but as soon as I swapped out rear's to the posi 8.5, it feels like a rocket! I have some bad wheel hop and some rear sway, but that is from my really crappy bushings and stock control arms....I am definately going southside in the bear future, as soon as I get my tuning done right.....

With regards to your combo....I have read, and re-read this thread at least twice over, and I keep thinking the same thing....you need better than 2800 stall, and if you are going to run higher stall, you should throw some type of posi in there! it would be a huge difference...let that 63 open up! after that, the cam should be on the hit list....Just for a side not, did you ever reference your BLMs? I dont remember seeing them....how is your oil? I switched to 10:30 synthetic, new O2 sensor, and another huge difference in my car reactions....my car was running way too much fuel open loop, at idle i was hitting 162 on the blms!!! i was turning my oil to fuel!! So, new O2, new oil from mobile 1, and again, it feels even more powerful, with only 12 lbs of boost on a leaking header!!! i am testing tomorrow night for my first 1/4 in 5 years in a TR, but I will let you know, and that will be my basis to go on from now on....I know I have a few other mods to do as basics, but I gotta start somewhere, and by setting my goals, and making this car run right from the start, it can only get better, faster!

Get your converter, and i think a posi, and see how it feels....i dont htink that peg-leg is cutting it anymore!

John :biggrin:

A posi is definitly in the plans, but sadly for the 85, its kinda taking a back seat to my dads 86 as of right now (its a peg leg as well and will be getting an eaton sooner) Eventually an eaton will be installed in both though. Blms stay right around 128-131 in all cells, new Denso lead proof 02. I wish the car had a 63 on it... but its only a reclocked/modified TA49. I did however take it out yesterday with the driect scan. I had made a few small changes to timing and fuel pressure before i went out but the car really ran well yesterday. Not sure if it was just having one of its "good" days or if some how the VSS not readings was causing problems (other than TCC not locking i didn't think the VSS had much bearing on stuff) Anyways, at WOT 02s were in the low 800s through 1st and 2nd. and stuck to 785-790 through 90 mph or so. There was no knock. I know this isn't as good as the track, but direct scan has always been 99% on the money when it comes to 1/8 mile and 1/4 mph(sunday i ran my 87 and it was dead accurate with the timeslip) So i made quite a few 1/8 mile passes at 14-15 psi and it was trapping from 81-82 mph. I'm pretty happy with this as that should translate to 102-104 in the 1/4. I don't think its where it should be still but it does feel like its coming around a lot better. The stall seemed fairly effiecient dropping 1000 rpms on the shifts. I do agree that a posi would help tremendously in how the car feels as right now 1st gear is pretty useless from a stop, which means it will drop into 2nd a little early and it has to pull through it, which isn't a big deal on my 87, but this car just doesn't have the power to pull through too high of a gear. Thanks for all the help guys.

Racemybuick good luck at the track man.

 

[Jerryl]

......... or if some how the VSS not readings was causing problems (other than TCC not locking i didn't think the VSS had much bearing on stuff) ......

Actually, I belief the VSS influences the LV8 (load parameter) and will affect fueling so it is important to have it fairly accurate. Glad you got it fixed!