Will ethanol work in our cars?

[loki993]

well dont know about the whole corrosive thing or the water thing but this is right

Running a non-FFV with too high of a percentage of ethanol will also cause a lean air fuel mixture. A lean mixture, if allowed to persist over considerable periods of time, will cause overheating of pistons and will eventually cause engine damage. It will also cause premature catalytic converter failure. This is also why the check engine light will illuminate if you mix more than around 50% to 60% E85 by volume with your gasoline in a non-FFV. If this happens, just add more 87 octane regular grade gasoline as soon as possible to correct the problem. (Some premium blends contain up to 10% ethanol; to correct the problem as quickly as possible, always add regular grade gasoline, not premium grade gasoline.) These lean mixture problems will not happen in a properly-converted vehicle.

ethanol has a different stoich than gasoline and without a change in the timing maps and maybe injector pulse and what not the car will probally run like crap, if at all. the tune is different with ethanol than regular gas, you can just fill up a car with it and have it run. thats said somebody needs to make an ethanol chip for TRs .

 

[Pablo]

yeah, obviously you need to tune for the different stoich ethanol has

the biggest difference is going to be in the fueling, because it can be dangerous if you dont adjust that side of the chip. The timing side will just hamper maximum performance since the Ethanol is going to want more timing.

Between different kinds of alcohol there are different stoich's even, when I run methanol in my alky system I barely have to remove any fuel as compared to the opposite end of the spectrum which is isopropyl which has a stoich in the 20s.

People are always going to be afraid of and nay say things that change the status quo because we fear things we do not understand. Only ethanol is nothing new, even the model T was designed to run on ethanol or gasoline.

I simply cannot wait till more stations pop up. 28 psi on the street with no alky kit will rule.

Then again I do my own chips and have wide band and data logging equipment.

BTW if anyone wants to conduct an experiment, im all ears. I have access to an ultrasonic bath and different kinds of alcohol fuels.

What do you want to do? Put a peice of gm rubber or o ring in the bath with ethanol or a peice of fuel line and let it sit,.. how long do you wanna do it for to satisfy the notion that ethanol will degrade these parts compared to gasoline

 

[Gary Wells]

Well, there you have it, from the "experts". So go ahead, throw it in, see what happens... strike

---------------------------------------
fwiw, I am not naysaying anything or anybody, and I am all in favor of experimentation, (when it is somebody else and someone else's car), but I have rarely known Strikeagle to be incorrect.

 

[strikeeagle]

---------------------------------------
fwiw, I am not naysaying anything or anybody, and I am all in favor of experimentation, (when it is somebody else and someone else's car), but I have rarely known Strikeagle to be incorrect.

Yeah, well tell my WIFE...

strike

 

[Gary Wells]

Yeah, well tell my WIFE...strike

---------------------------
Naw, I'll pass. If you don't let women think that they are right most of the time, they clam up, and I mean that literally.

 

[earlbrown]

I've recently retired and actually plan to sell the ethanol to the public that is if the ATF boys will okay. When selling to the public I'll have to collect road tax and some state/local taxes, but heck at this point I'll be able to make the ethanol for around $1.50 to $2.00 per gallon.

HOW

Actually I was reading some site about a month ago that sold "still kits" and they mentioned something in thier FAQ. They said you could get a tax break from brewing your own fuel. And it was something stupid like $.60/gallon.
That's what really got me thinking about making a still.

 

[d0n_3d]

I've just about got the car finished, I am going to give it a try. I just can't forsee it being a problem when you run a stainless aftermarket fuel pump like a walbro and you have aftermarket fuel injectors which can handle alcohol to begin with. The only problem I see might be the little sections of rubber on the fuel lines. But even that being said, I would think it would take a LONG time to eat away at the rubber all the way through. I guess we'll find out when I see leaks under my car. E85 is not 100% alcohol don't forget. It is actually 15% 93 octane as well so it DOES have the lubricants that regular gas has. I just can't see how it would be that harmful. And I don't think you will ruin your entire engine. How is that? People spray methanol all the time and I don't see people complaining about rebuilding their engine all the time? That stuff is 100x more corrosive than alcohol. I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong because nobody has really tested it, I guess I'll be a guinea pig. I'll let you guys know what happens. This stuff is great because I can actually pass emissions without worrying! And you can't go wrong with 105 octane rating either. Perfect for daily drivers like myself.

 

[72firebird]

I've just about got the car finished, I am going to give it a try. I just can't forsee it being a problem when you run a stainless aftermarket fuel pump like a walbro and you have aftermarket fuel injectors which can handle alcohol to begin with. The only problem I see might be the little sections of rubber on the fuel lines. But even that being said, I would think it would take a LONG time to eat away at the rubber all the way through. I guess we'll find out when I see leaks under my car. E85 is not 100% alcohol don't forget. It is actually 15% 93 octane as well so it DOES have the lubricants that regular gas has. I just can't see how it would be that harmful. And I don't think you will ruin your entire engine. How is that? People spray methanol all the time and I don't see people complaining about rebuilding their engine all the time? That stuff is 100x more corrosive than alcohol. I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong because nobody has really tested it, I guess I'll be a guinea pig. I'll let you guys know what happens. This stuff is great because I can actually pass emissions without worrying! And you can't go wrong with 105 octane rating either. Perfect for daily drivers like myself.

Are you getting a different chip for when you run E85? On FFVs they have a sensor that will detect the extra ethanol and change the timing curve since E85 burns much different than gasoline.

 

[d0n_3d]

Well I'll be running my alcohol chip which was custom programmed by Joe Lubrant. It has 23 degrees timing in 1st and 2nd and then 21 in the 3 and 4 gears. I just talked to my good customer who runs this stuff on his race car EVO and he said don't be afraid to run it. You will love it. It's not as harmful as people claim it to be. Sooo...we'll see what happens. He says you need to run a little more timing than normal on this fuel because it burns cooler and in order to really take advantage of it, you need to bump the timing up. Plus this chip is programmed for 100% fuel across the board so I don't forsee myself running out of fuel. He says you won't need 40% more fuel to make power like some people think. As long as the tune is correct, you'll need more fuel than gas yes but not nearly as much as people are claiming. Anyway...we'll see what happens. I really excited to try it out.

 

[d0n_3d]

I forgot to mention I'll be eventually getting the car setup to where I can adjust timing on the fly like with a Translator Pro. I have just the normal translator right now.

 

[d0n_3d]

oh and one more thing...Wikipedia doesn't know everything :tongue:

 

[Bob Avellar]

oh and one more thing...Wikipedia doesn't know everything :tongue:

That's for sure. That stuff gets edited and reedited all the time. You have no idea whersome of that info comes from.

 

[Pablo]

If it's all black and white you might as well not believe anything because there is not a person on earth without bias, including people that write traditional encyclopedias. Wikipedia is not meant to be an end all of information nor should any source be an end all. If you are going to discount the info presented then do so on the information presented, not the source. This is called an Ad hominem attack and is a logical fallacy.


Don3d, you are going to run into problems unless you start burning your own chips or you are working with a guy who has done this before.

Ethanol has a differen stoichiometric air fuel ratio, its going to need more fuel across the board.

If you dont get a wideband setup on your car don't even bother, you are going to try it, and then when the car doesn't run right come on here and say its crap.

Then the naysayers on here are going to all jump up and down saying I told you so.


I'd like to see anyone back up the assertion that the rubber fuel lines will be appreciably damaged by E85 sometime in our lifetime.

Show me some data... because all we have here is hearsay. Hearsay is not science.