Air Conditioning Issue - R134 Coversion - AC guys please step inside

[8UWITH6]

Hey fellas, broke down and converted my WE4 today. At work, I had them pull out my 1.5 - 2.0 lbs of R12, pull a vacuum, and it held for an hour or so. So the system was empty. I drove it home and pulled the schrader valves out of the high and low sides, put the brass adapter fittings on, and started the re-fill process.

1st can was ester 100 oil charge w/ 2 oz of refrigerant. I jumped the compressor to get it to suck it down............ now my problem begins.

Now, no matter what I do the car will not accept my R134a cans. Upside down, right side up, compressor jumped, or not, it wont take anything in. The evaporator line from the orifice tube freezes up when the compressor is jumped. What gives???????????

HELP, Im going to punch a hole in something............

 

[DailyDrifter]

When you opened the valves you lost your vacuum. You need the vacuum to help suck the new reefer in. I just converted my Nissan to R134 today also and it was almost to cold and it was at least 96 degrees with alot of humidity. I would take the car to a shop that can Evac and recharge it. I wouldnt use the cans of reefer personally, they put all types of different stuff in there, but some people have luck with them. On a side note, you only have to hold a vacuum for about 10 minutes or so. I would also add dye to the system just in case you have future problems with it. When I go back to PA for the 4th of july, i'm bringing back my compressor and hoses so I can put A/C back on the t-type

 

[8UWITH6]

Thanks for the reply, yes I know I "lost" vacuum when I removed the schrader valves. It should still take the refrigerant. I work at a shop, and to prevent spending money, Im trying not to have my shop do the work. I dont understand why this is being such a pain in the ass..............

 

[DailyDrifter]

If your shop is any good you wouldnt have to pay that much. Do it at lunch time. My theory is that when you lost vacuum now the system has atmospheric pressure in it, Now when you try to add reefer to the system its not taking it because of the psi already in the lines (kinda like 10 gallons of "crap" in a 5 gallon bucket) Also you dont want air in the system, you might have to replace the drier if the dessicant bag absorbed alot of moisture. Hope you get what i'm trying to say, even i'm a little confused at this point

 

[8UWITH6]

Corporate shop, no free-bee stuff. I didnt lose vacuum. The system was pulled into a vacuum, then shut off. The schrader valves were removed for all of 5 seconds to swap the new adapter fittings in place........... Im not replacing the dryer this time. Last time I did it "correctly" the system didnt blow cold air worth a ****. Last time I just did a quick changeover it blew ice cubes for 3 yrs..................

 

[8UWITH6]

Im not trying to be difficult, but there has to be an explanation of why my system is not taking a charge. I dont want to hear what I should and shouldnt have replaced. The system worked okay with R12, but was low on freon, and I didnt want to keep pumping cans of R12 in it every year. Someone just tell me why it wont take the cans.....................

 

[TurboBob]

I'm not an expert. But once you remove the schraders, the system fills with air, right?

Once you installed the adapters, don't you have to re-vacuum the system to pull the air out?

Bob

 

[8UWITH6]

I swapped the schraders for the adapter fittings almost instantly................. I dont see how this could introduce an excessive amount of air into the freshly emptied system.

 

[xrunner123]

I swapped the schraders for the adapter fittings almost instantly................. I dont see how this could introduce an excessive amount of air into the freshly emptied system.

Air should not be introduced into the system. Can you pull a vac with the proper fittings in place?

 

[49-blues]

You have to revacuate the system with a vacuum pump, once you loose a vacuum on the system you rentered air and non condensible gases into the system-even if your system would take a charge you would get high head pressure because of the air and non condesable gases in the system, all you have to do to get your system to work right is revacuate it, hook up to fresh refrigerate and purge the hoses before you open the valve to let the freon into your system so as not to introduce even trace elements of air. once you do that just open the valves with compressor off and the vacuum will suck a staic charge equalizing the system before ever jumping out the low pressure switch, you only need to jump out switch if compressure when turned on doesnt engage the clutch on compressor, once compressor runs on its own open and close valves until proper pressure is reached.also on low pressure switch there is a adjustment screw in between the prongs that if turned to the left will cut on compressor to lower pressure/temperature if needed. HTH -Matt

 

[TurboBob]

hook up to fresh refrigerate and purge the hoses before you open the valve to let the freon into your system so as not to introduce even trace elements of air.

how much air will this introduce (not purging the line). I topped off my system this year and didn't purge the line (about a foot long line from a recharge kit)

Bob

 

[8UWITH6]

Its been some time since I did this on my old T-type, but I can remember doing the same process on that car with no problems. I guess Ill spend the money tomorrow and have my shop evac and f-ing recharge my f-ing system with R134a. Stupid car, it better work, or its for sale. Frustrated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DailyDrifter]

Make sure the orafice tube isn't clogged, there is a syndrome known as the "black death" where the lines start breaking down and send crap through the system. Good luck bud, A/C systems can be a PITA sometimes.

 

[Morbid]

What the others are saying is correct about pulling the vacuum. The correct way to do it is..

1) Reclamation - removing any refrigerant from the system.
2) Effect any repairs - Open the system up to replace any components needed.
3) Close system - reinstall parts
4) Pull vacuum- Pull vacuum down to the specified level and check to see if the system holds the vacuum.

If it does then you go ahead with the charging (Regal's usually do a liquid charge on the low side (Container upside down).

It doesn't matter how long the system was open for, if you open it (remove anything besides the pressure cycling switch) you need to pull vacuum before charging it.

I re-did my entire system last season and did the troubleshooting based off the FSW. Even if your system took the charge it would have air in it anyway which isn't good.

 

[GN owner]

It is essential to evacuate the system prior to filling with R134A to remove air and moisture. In the past it has been recommended that anytime a system is exposed to open air that the accumulator/dessicant be replaced to insure that remaining moisture be contained and not allowed to travel throughout the system. Moisture is a leading cause of failure, especially in R134a systems. Moisture causes the refrigerant to form acids, which eat thru evaporators and condensers, making them leak, and forming sludges.

 

[Dr.drivability]

A/c

If I were you, I would replace the drier and orface tube and pull a vacuum, then recharge it. This is cheap insurance!!! A new compressor will cost you more in the long run!!!!

 

[8UWITH6]

Thanks for all the replies. You guys are talking like I had the system open for years. The schrader valve was removed for a few seconds while the adapter fitting was installed...........

Im not interested in replacing the dryer or O/T right now. I would like some input on why its not taking the refrigerant into the system. I have never run into a problem filling a system.

 

[REGALTURBO]

In my collision repair shop, I generally handle the air conditioning repairs associated with any damaged vehicle. So I can only offer you some suggestions.

Even if you have already pulled a vacume on the system, replacing the schrader valves after that step has released most of that vacume you had. It only takes a few seconds to loose that vacume pressure.

You can draw some freon into the system while running the compressor but the high side must be closed if you do this.

Your best bet is to just pull another vacume, hold it for about 5 or 10 minutes, monitor for any pressure drop and refill the system on both the high and low sides together. All done with the proper equiptment. I would highly recommend not using the R-134a cans as the freon used in them is usually inferior, off-shore material and can contaminate an A/C system.

Do this and you be done with it....

 

[Dabigguy]

When you switch from R-12 to 134a, you MUST use the proper orfice tube. R-12 and 134a require a different sized orfice. Yours may be filled with gunk from the old system and not allowing the 134a to circulate properly. It is a good idea to spend $35 to replace the drier. The orfice is about $7.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ccumulator-Receiver-Drier_397_R|GRPACPTAMS___


The instant that you removed the schrader valve, the system started sucking in air. Air does not have the cooling properties that we seek in an AC system. You replaced 2 valves at 5 seconds each, that's 10 seconds of air rushing in taking up space needed for the freon. Less freon= less cooling ability. Also, with the air comes humidity(moisture). You cannot have any moisture in the system at all.

You have to have a vacuum in the system so it will suck the freon in. If it is filled with atmospheric pressure (outside air) which is 14.5psi, you are trying to fill the area inside your lines, condenser, evaporator with freon that is already filled with atmospheric pressure of 14.5psi. It is like trying to fill an already filled Coke bottle. If you add something to the bottle, something has to come out.

We are just trying to help you here.......you asked for advice, but you don't want to hear what we have to say? Are you a relative of liv4gnz?

Here are some links that may help.

Air Conditioner Compressor Failures

Automotive AC Information Forum - ACKITS.COM

Automotive AC Information Forum - ACKITS.COM

Automotive AC Information Forum - ACKITS.COM

Projects - IROC-Z - A/C

AC 134a Retrofit

 

["Turbo-T"]

Good advice here, subscribing.