Any one make it to 10's w/6131e yet

[d0n_3d]

Damn, Don is fiesty tonight!!!

I just can't believe how some people still don't have any faith in the newer design of the Garrett wheels. Why would you want to run 30 psi of boost to try and achieve your goal? It's like "hey man how much boost you running in that thing? 35?" I'm like uh no I don't need to run big boost to make power. Try 23-25 psi. Choice is yours! I know some of us haven't left the mid 1990's and think turbos can't get better but come on...we have come a LONG way in turbos in the last 10 years.

 

[86brick]

The one guy down here (Eddie) recently ran 10.85 @124mph with a little PT52 turbo on a full weight 3600+lb GN... Boost was 25lbs and the timing was 26* if I remember correctly... This car has a Hartline built motor~ Champion cnc ported iron heads w/ port match intake, 210/210 billet roller cam, 3" ATR DP, V4 IC, 3200 stall 9/11 converter, 50lb injs., DIY alky, and a single 340 fuel pump... He popped the gasket on this pass but I'm pretty darn impressed considering the turbo!!!

 

[DonnieShort]

23-25 psi boost isn't going 10's on a unported head car, no way.

 

[Blazer406]

23-25 psi boost isn't going 10's on a unported head car, no way.

I concurr..... maybe 28-30 psi.... on a great air day.... with a 1.50 or better 60'.......

 

[86brick]

23-25 psi boost isn't going 10's on a unported head car, no way.

I disagree, the unported head cars like a LOT of timing as well..... Just most people would rather run low timing high boost.. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat!

 

[Blazer406]

I disagree, the unported head cars like a LOT of timing as well..... Just most people would rather run low timing high boost.. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat!

I'm all ears......

I'm not saying it is impossible... just not likely. Ed Brewer ran 11.31 on a stock turbo stock longblock car .... full weight.... I'm sure not many would have believed that type of performance from that combo.

Higher timing will make more power in these cars.... but there will be some point where it just falls off with more timing..... not real sure where that is.... probably around 27 or 28 deg with a stock engine... if I were to guess....

IMHO 23-25 psi..... aftermarket turbo on stock heads..... probably a tall task.....

28-30..... probably more of a chance there......

 

[DonnieShort]

If you say so. Only 2 ways I can think of without blowing the car up is 1) a real lightweight car and 2) the planets being in line. Sorry but 25psi on this turbo is not going 10's without the benifit of ported heads. No matter if the turbo will do it or not. Those heads will only flow so much before becoming a restriction. Been there done that. You don't see many untouched motors get in the 10's unless it's a light car and running some serious boost and timing, more than 25psi. Now I didn't say it couldn't be done, just not many have done it at that low a boost level with unported heads.

 

[bison]

Problem here is, alot of you guys keep talking about different turbo's. You have everyone confused as to which is which.

6131 = TE60 + GT61 compressor wheel

6152 = PT52 (or TE52 or PTE52) + GT61 compressor wheel

PTE54 = TE61 = old style 60-1 compressor wheel and T04B 69 trim exhaust wheel


IMHO, the 6131 will not be going 10's any time soon, unless you have a really well built motor and very high flowing heads.

The GT61 compressor wheel is considered a lower pressure wheel, but makes more power than the old 60-1 compressor it replaces at lower boost levels. Each motor will be slightly different but it has been discussed multiple times in the past that the GT61 compressor wheel will be done in the 24 -26psi range on most Buick motors. Crank the boost higher than that and you won't make any more power.

If you intend on running on the street then a turbo with the GT61 may be a better choice as you will make more power and spool quicker at the lower boost levels.

If you have a car that you want to keep pushing, and run at the track often, then something you can keep turning the boost up on and will keep making more power is a PTE54/TE61. This is a proven turbo and guys have run it into the 30+ psi range and still made more power. Try that with a GT61 compressor and it will be dead @ 24 - 26 psi.

No hype, no BS, just the way it is....

Hope that clears things up for a few guys.

I agree with your opinions on the PT54 because i have hit nearly 125mph with a vacuum launch 2.0 60' :biggrin: . I know i could have hit an even higher mph with a harder launch. These runs were around 25psi. I could have squeeked a little more out with a little more boost but i was out of injector. This was way back in 1999.

 

[86brick]

I'm in no way saying it's easy (there is no easy way to run 10's with a stock motor), but based on what I've seen with a few cars down here I'd say these stock motor cars may like higher timing more than some would think... Obviously when your adding boost and not going any faster you know the turbo is out of steam so at that point adding timing is the next logical step.. Also, instead of running C16 I've seen some stock motor cars pick up power from running C12 gas.... Is it safe?? Hey you know what they say "leaner is meaner!" :wink: :biggrin:

The bottom line to getting any combination to run (whether it be a stock motor or a built one) is a LOT of seat time and tuning which definitely applies to anybody running 10's on a stock longblock

 

[Marc87GN]

I'm all ears......

I'm not saying it is impossible... just not likely. Ed Brewer ran 11.31 on a stock turbo stock longblock car .... full weight.... I'm sure not many would have believed that type of performance from that combo.

Higher timing will make more power in these cars.... but there will be some point where it just falls off with more timing..... not real sure where that is.... probably around 27 or 28 deg with a stock engine... if I were to guess....

IMHO 23-25 psi..... aftermarket turbo on stock heads..... probably a tall task.....

28-30..... probably more of a chance there......

I'm one of them because I remember there were enhancements to that car that were mentioned in the post that people skipped over. That turbo was not bone stock, but ported and there were a few other things I can't remember, but I digress.

 

[NCTURBOS]

yeah on a 3000 lb car!

No.... 10.53 @ 129mph on a TSS legal car!!


K.

 

[NCTURBOS]

I just can't believe how some people still don't have any faith in the newer design of the Garrett wheels. Why would you want to run 30 psi of boost to try and achieve your goal? It's like "hey man how much boost you running in that thing? 35?" I'm like uh no I don't need to run big boost to make power. Try 23-25 psi. Choice is yours! I know some of us haven't left the mid 1990's and think turbos can't get better but come on...we have come a LONG way in turbos in the last 10 years.

I guarantee that if you run the GT61 @ 24psi boost and then switch to a Te/Ta61 and run 28psi, the car will make more power. And... If you then turn the GT61 up to that same 28psi, the Ta/Te61 will still make more power!! Period End!! That's what we're all after is more power to go faster.

Like I said in a previous post, below 23-24psi the GT61 is a better turbo.

It has nothing to do with being "stuck in the 90's".

 

[Blazer406]

I'm one of them because I remember there were enhancements to that car that were mentioned in the post that people skipped over. That turbo was not bone stock, but ported and there were a few other things I can't remember, but I digress.

I believe Ed cleaned out the casting flash as far inside the housings as he could..... but it was definately stock wheels and just cleaned up housings.... he discussed this with John Craig I believe.... consensus from Limit.... is why bother....it won't do much... if any... good. I'm not sure myself if that did any measureable good..... I guess anything to potentially pick up even hundredths at that point is worth it..... I couldn't imagine tenths.... hundredths maybe....

 

[d0n_3d]

I guarantee that if you run the GT61 @ 24psi boost and then switch to a Te/Ta61 and run 28psi, the car will make more power. And... If you then turn the GT61 up to that same 28psi, the Ta/Te61 will still make more power!! Period End!! That's what we're all after is more power to go faster.

Like I said in a previous post, below 23-24psi the GT61 is a better turbo.

It has nothing to do with being "stuck in the 90's".

Can I see some people who have actually tested and compared these two turbos and not going off speculation? I find it hard to believe a TE-61 will make more power than a GT61 at ANY boost level. I just told you the GT61 has made almost 700 horse on other applications. I'm sure it could make the same power on a Buick if everything on the motor was efficient. I bet when I turn up my 61 this spring to 28-30 psi I'll be in the 10.80's 10.70's. And this is on a 3700 lb car. Let's see a 54 or a TE61 do that? Prove me wrong?

 

[2QUIK6]

Can I see some people who have actually tested and compared these two turbos and not going off speculation?

When I was testing these, the closest to that match was a GT6131E and a TE60 with the same 31E wheel. I did not test a TE6131E. Conditions were near the same 50 degrees and 45% humidity, the GT6131E made more power at 24# boost which is what I ran the 7.23 @ 96 with than the TE6031E at 24, 25, 26, 27, and 28# of boost. The TE60 at 27# ran the same exact 7.23 but at 94 mph.
This was on a stock untouched long block, heads never been off the car, fully weighted. The GT6131E did not run any faster from 24# to 28# but I would contribute that to the untouched heads, not the turbo, more boost is more boost only if it can make it into the cylinders.

 

[NCTURBOS]

Can I see some people who have actually tested and compared these two turbos and not going off speculation? I find it hard to believe a TE-61 will make more power than a GT61 at ANY boost level. I just told you the GT61 has made almost 700 horse on other applications. I'm sure it could make the same power on a Buick if everything on the motor was efficient. I bet when I turn up my 61 this spring to 28-30 psi I'll be in the 10.80's 10.70's. And this is on a 3700 lb car. Let's see a 54 or a TE61 do that? Prove me wrong?

What more info. do you want me to show you?!?! The blue car in my signature was the 10.53 @ 129 mph car with a Ta61!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's alot faster than your possible, might, or might not happen "bet-'cha" 10.70-10.80 pass that might happen when you turn up the boost!!

Do you want me to bring a Ta/Te61 with me to BG and swap the Ta66 off it to prove you wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and I've got quite a few other cars in the area with the same thing going for them as well!!! Trust me, I'm not speculating out of my ass here!! Pure, simple fact!!

 

[screamindemon2]

Man I wasn't trying to start a war, just wanted to know what to expect from my new motor , w/ comp 212-212 cam ,race ported heads& intake ,cat forged crank,going back w/stock rods, unless any ones got any input, going to use arp bolts,30 over trw's.I want to go 11 s on pump gas & 10s on alky
Thanks guys for all yalls input
JoJo

 

[NCTURBOS]

Man I wasn't trying to start a war...

Is there a "smiley" for frustration?!?! :biggrin:

I think you will have a strong car that will do what you are intending, per your above post.


K.

 

[tim87tr]

I guarantee that if you run the GT61 @ 24psi boost and then switch to a Te/Ta61 and run 28psi, the car will make more power. And... If you then turn the GT61 up to that same 28psi, the Ta/Te61 will still make more power!! Period End!! That's what we're all after is more power to go faster.

Like I said in a previous post, below 23-24psi the GT61 is a better turbo.

It has nothing to do with being "stuck in the 90's".

Being stuck in the 90's doesn't sell new turbos :biggrin: I actually prefer to be stuck in the 80s, along with my GN.

 

[Blazer406]

IMHO it is too early in the life cycle of the GT/PT 6131 and GT/PT 6152 to have enought people running them to make a generalazition that one is better than the other. If there were as many combos running the 6131's and 6152's ... as there are TE/TA 61's .... I would bet money that there would be some in the 10's...... The few that are out there (Gt/PT) are already close and closing in fast...... I expect to see several board members with the newer style turbos in the 10's this season... on full weight cars.

Can someone send me some compressor maps of the turbos in question? I would like to compare the compressor maps myself.