what oils timing chain

[randy winn]

just had engine rebuilt started up ran good for 10 minutes then backfired and cut off pulled cam sensor the pin was sheard off of gear but the gears looked very dry was wondering how they get oil the gear was stuck in cam gear does any one know what would cause this everything in engine is new

 

[Nick Micale]

Did you replace the timing cover with a new one during the engine rebuild?

 

[randy winn]

yes replaced everything but cam sensor got cover from gbody

 

[bison]

See if you can turn the oil pump shaft with a screwdriver

 

[randy winn]

yes that turns easy

 

[EVIL]

Silly question but, Does the car have oil?
Was the oil pump packed with Vaseline?

D

 

[randy winn]

ya it was holding 70 lbs press. ran good for about 10 min.then shut down the gears are real dry maybe from the heat

 

[earlbrown]

the timing chain is splash fed with oil. The oil slinger on the crank snout will fling oil up on the cam gear as well.

When you turn the pump 'easily' does it feel like the gears are spinning in air or can you feel some fluid drag when turning the shaft?

 

[randy winn]

you can feel fluid drag it was holding good press. until it shut down

 

[bison]

Is there any evidence of misalignment on the gear helix?

 

[randy winn]

not that i can tell the sensor slid in pretty easy

 

[randy winn]

this engine wiped cam lobe was a lot of metal and bearing shavings before rebuild could that have ruined sensor. where can i get new cam sensor

 

[earlbrown]

when you said it sheared the pin, I guess the gear started to spin on the cam sensor shaft. At that moment the pump should have almost stopped spinning and the cam sensor should have sent the wrong data to the ECM causing the engine to die. I would guess a new sensor should fix your problem.


BUT.....


Why did the pin shear off? Any chance you have a HV oil pump, hi pressure spring, a sump full of 20W50, a small fram oil filter and spooled up the engine with cold oil?

 

[randy winn]

no hv oil pump i used the 60 psi spring 10w40 oil napa 1036 filter where do you get cam sensor

 

[earlbrown]

this engine wiped cam lobe was a lot of metal and bearing shavings before rebuild could that have ruined sensor. where can i get new cam sensor

Shaving's wouldn't have ruined the sensor pin. It takes a severe load to do that, not abrasives.

When you did the rebuild after the wiped cam, did you remove all the galley plugs and cam bearings then hot tank the block? Also, did you reuse any oil coolers either external or in the radiator?

Cam sensors can still be bought new i believe. The 'Standard' brand is same as OEM GM. If all it did was shear the pin, you can replace that, set the end play and call it a day. (and save a few bucks doing it)

 

[Paul Lohr]

Where to get cam sensor:

AC Delco
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1987-B...s&fits=Make:Buick&hash=item1c2f59d4aa&vxp=mtr

Standard Motor Products (part number PC16):
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=40356&cc=1379820

Rebuild service:
Member scot w. rebuilds cam sensors.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/new-rebuilt-cam-sensor-thanks-gns.386748/#post-3118842

Based on the information you have provided, I would check how the cam sensor aligns with the oil pump driveshaft. The front cover has to come off to check this. Carefully put the front cover in a vice with the cam sensor bore parallel to the floor (makes the test a little easier). Install the oil pump driving gear and the cam sensor. Make sure the cam sensor is rotated to its normal position (might be a good idea to make reference marks on the sensor housing and front cover). Install the cam sensor hold down bolt and bracket. While pushing the oil pump gear into its pocket, rotate the oil pump gear. Hopefully it turns easy without any binding. You may find that flipping the oil pump gear 180-degrees makes the assembly easier to turn. Pretty sure this assembly will survive with a moderate amount of binding but severe binding could break things.

Bison's question about misalignment between the cam sensor gear and the camshaft gear is worth considering. Bison, should there be just a bit of gear lash between the cam sensor gear and the cam gear throughout a full rotation of the camshaft? If that's the case, perhaps this is a way to check for a gear alignment issue?

Feel free to respond or send a private message if I've not been clear.

Paul Lohr

 

[randy winn]

I was looking at old cam there's what looks like oiling hole tight behind cam sensor gear if that was stopped up would it cause this problem the gears were really dry don't know if this is oiling hole

 

[Paul Lohr]

Randy,
Yes, there should be an oil hole near the back side of the cam's driving gear.

The oil's path is like this: the front cam journal is fed and some of that oil seeps out the front interface between the cam bearing and cam journal. Some of this oil finds a passage a that is located in thrust face of the cam. This thrust face is up against the front of the block. That passage connects to the passage that is on the back side of the cam gear. This is probably the oiling hole you are talking about.

I don't know if a lack of oil from this hole would cause the cam sensor gear's pin to break.

It might help if you post a few annotated photos.

Paul Lohr

 

[randy winn]

what should i do next

 

[earlbrown]

The answer to this question will indicate what needs to be done next.

When you did the rebuild after the wiped cam, did you remove all the galley plugs and cam bearings then hot tank the block? Also, did you reuse any oil coolers either external or in the radiator?