Which Rear sway bar

Turbo6inKY said:
If you care about maintaining grip in the rear in turns, the stock F41 bar is all you need.

These others are too stiff for the rear of the car. The really heavy duty ones will help the car launch straight on the strip by resisting body roll from engine torque and keeping the passenger tire planted, so if that's what you're looking for, go for it. Otherwise, these large rear bars just limit rear end articulation too much, often to the point where you'll pick up a tire in a hard turn, which is bad.
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I completely disagree.i have recorded higher g force with the hr sway bar in.
 
Mr.Spool said:
I completely disagree.i have recorded higher g force with the hr sway bar in.
Click to expand...

What else did you change?

I'm consistently pulling 1g to 1.2g with the stock bars front and rear, and the car doesn't spin in slaloms.


And in pulling those kinds of numbers, the car looks like this:

ascott-wilm-8.jpg


Look at the tires. The rears are planted. The inside front is getting pretty close to being picked up. This is stock F41 bars front and rear. Moog 5660 springs in front, and CC651 in the back.

The thing is, these are stick axle cars. So what works with the independent front isn't necessarily what's going to work in the solid rear.
In the front, the two sides of the car are decoupled. That means you need a swaybar to transfer load to the inside tire to help press it down into the pavement and limit the body roll and compression on the outside.

But with the stick axle in the back, the axle is going to keep the tires on the ground as long as the suspension can move enough for the body to roll without picking the tire up. If you stiffen up the rear in a way that limits articulation, it WILL pick up that inside tire. And it won't pick it up in steady high speed, high G turns. It gets picked up in low speed sudden transitions, like slaloms, or emergency lane changes on the highway. Exactly the spot where losing 25% of your road contact can mean the difference between getting through the obstacle or spinning.
 
Turbo6inKY said:
What else did you change?

I'm consistently pulling 1g to 1.2g with the stock bars front and rear, and the car doesn't spin in slaloms.


And in pulling those kinds of numbers, the car looks like this:

View attachment 294404

Look at the tires. The rears are planted. The inside front is getting pretty close to being picked up. This is stock F41 bars front and rear. Moog 5660 springs in front, and CC651 in the back.

The thing is, these are stick axle cars. So what works with the independent front isn't necessarily what's going to work in the solid rear.
In the front, the two sides of the car are decoupled. That means you need a swaybar to transfer load to the inside tire to help press it down into the pavement and limit the body roll and compression on the outside.

But with the stick axle in the back, the axle is going to keep the tires on the ground as long as the suspension can move enough for the body to roll without picking the tire up. If you stiffen up the rear in a way that limits articulation, it WILL pick up that inside tire. And it won't pick it up in steady high speed, high G turns. It gets picked up in low speed sudden transitions, like slaloms, or emergency lane changes on the highway. Exactly the spot where losing 25% of your road contact can mean the difference between getting through the obstacle or spinning.
Click to expand...
Too bad I sunk all my money into an engine rebuild with all the forged internals(which I'm beginning to believe isn't necessary with a really great tune) and GN1 heads and a full billet transmission. Accelerating at with a low 10s capable car is an awesome feeling, but running that road course looks as fun as hell. Could've rebuilt a stock short block or found a good running one and a decent rebuild on the transmission and had money to put into the suspension for an auto cross car. Looks like I'll have to take my supped up Cruze and run it.
 
MCH86GN said:
Too bad I sunk all my money into an engine rebuild with all the forged internals(which I'm beginning to believe isn't necessary with a really great tune) and GN1 heads and a full billet transmission. Accelerating at with a low 10s capable car is an awesome feeling, but running that road course looks as fun as hell. Could've rebuilt a stock short block or found a good running one and a decent rebuild on the transmission and had money to put into the suspension for an auto cross car. Looks like I'll have to take my supped up Cruze and run it.
Click to expand...

Autocross is fun in any car. Take the cruze and have a blast!
 
That's what I would like... if like to setup my car so I can occasionally auto cross with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here's an even better shot. Look at the front driver side tire. That's less than 2" of an 11" wide tire still touching the ground, while the rear is still fully engaged.

And for the record, I have a new front swaybar on the way. I'm going to a NASCAR style straight splined unit, it's the only way to get the kind of bar rate in the front I need get that inside tire back on the ground (even RideTech's Musclebar isn't enough for what I'm doing). But I'm leaving the rear alone until I can prove I need it.

That's my philosophy, the reasoning behind it, and pictures with telemetry to illustrate why I'm thinking this way.

And again, if drag racing is your thing, don't listen to me. None of what I said applies to that application. Talk to one of the guys running 9s with 1.5 second sixty foots. :-p

ascott-3.jpg
 
I have had all three setups on my car(s), stock style, spohn style, and HR. I ended up taking the HR bar from the car I originally put it on and put it on my GN (more driven out of the three). It handles the best for street driven performance. On the HR bar, the further the bar braces are put on the axle housing the more drag oriented it is, move them toward the inside and the more streetable it is. Obviously with this type of setup, you can master preload as well on the passenger side to offset any driver added weight. It gets my vote.

There are so many variables that can differ one's opinion as well. Speaking from an apples to apples comparison is quite difficult until you place it on your own car to see how they all handle, like me :)

I have a more track style setup with coil over suspension, tubular suspension all around as well as body bracing and frame bracing.
 
Turbo6inKY said:
What else did you change?

I'm consistently pulling 1g to 1.2g with the stock bars front and rear, and the car doesn't spin in slaloms.


And in pulling those kinds of numbers, the car looks like this:

View attachment 294404

Look at the tires. The rears are planted. The inside front is getting pretty close to being picked up. This is stock F41 bars front and rear. Moog 5660 springs in front, and CC651 in the back.

The thing is, these are stick axle cars. So what works with the independent front isn't necessarily what's going to work in the solid rear.
In the front, the two sides of the car are decoupled. That means you need a swaybar to transfer load to the inside tire to help press it down into the pavement and limit the body roll and compression on the outside.

But with the stick axle in the back, the axle is going to keep the tires on the ground as long as the suspension can move enough for the body to roll without picking the tire up. If you stiffen up the rear in a way that limits articulation, it WILL pick up that inside tire. And it won't pick it up in steady high speed, high G turns. It gets picked up in low speed sudden transitions, like slaloms, or emergency lane changes on the highway. Exactly the spot where losing 25% of your road contact can mean the difference between getting through the obstacle or spinning.
Click to expand...
Cool pics!i already had solid uppers and lowers,pinion angle adjusted,stiffer springs up front with stock sway bars.then took out the rear sway bar put in the hr on the stock rear really stiffened it up.bigger meats at one point.found the tires were the limiting point.then after bigger tires with the hr bar body roll and rear sway was reduced.much later installing a ford 9inch with the hr bar stiffened up the rear even more,so much that as I changed direction to more straight line I left the front sway bar out and don't miss at all for street driving.we had at top car here set up only for the turns and the car still had plenty of rear sway with the stock rear bar.looking at your pics we we were not on a super low profile tire with a big rim and your pics do show the front looking to lift in the turn.
 
Turbo6inKY said:
I'm going to a NASCAR style straight splined unit, it's the only way to get the kind of bar rate in the front I need get that inside tire back on the ground
Click to expand...
Do you use taller spindles or taller upper and lower ball joints?
 
Ttype6 said:
Do you use taller spindles or taller upper and lower ball joints?
Click to expand...

1" Taller lower ball joints. I used to run the taller truck ball joints in the upper arms, but didn't like how the stud taper didn't match the spindle. Seemed like a bad thing waiting to happen.
 
turbotrix2004 said:
So I'm unsure of what to do. It looks like it's either an hr bar or f41?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

There are plenty of data points in this thread you can balance and make a decision with. We can't choose for you. It's your car.
 
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