Will a distributor fit with stock setup?
- Thread starter norbs
- Start date
- Status
Here are some actual numbers,
no thoughts,
no wishful thinking,
no maybes,
no guessing,
no assumptions,
FACTS, and DATA....
Edited data log showing none interupted EST Launch Mode.
Traction Control Turned Off.
Since both use timing controls, for understanding the concept, the Traction Control was off.
Note:
With the roads being cold and seriously traction limited, the launch perimeters were backed down.
Observations
Launch MAP 120s, by the time the car first rolls about 150.
EGTS, while not datalogged were observed to be between 1,375dF, and 1,450 dF
AFRs ~12:1 while staged.
As the brakes are released, the luanch timing begins to decay back to normal.
As the timing begins to increase, the MAP does also.
(Note: the timing decay rate is adjustable)
EngRun= Time since engine started.
MPH= Miles Per Hour
RPM= Engine RPM
K/Pa= MAP
TPS= % TPS
CTSF= Coolant temp dF
MatF= Manifold Air Temp dF
SpkF= Actual spark advance (at crank)
PW= Pulse Width
WB= Wide Band Indicated AFR
PS= Tail light input (was Power Steering Pressure Switch)
TimeStamp: 11/29/2005 - 09:34:52
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:06 0 800 47 0 186 88 20.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 48 0 186 88 20.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 21.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 48 0 186 88 21.1 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 51 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 23.9 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.35 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 750 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 52 0 186 88 23.9 2.35 14.1 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:07 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.1 2.35 14.1 Y
00:08:07 0 775 51 0 186 88 21.8 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.1 2.35 14.3 Y
Increasing TPS, 0 MPH, entering launch mode
00:08:07 0 825 50 1 186 88 20.1 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 800 51 1 186 88 18.7 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 825 52 2 186 88 20.4 2.32 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 825 51 4 186 87 20.4 2.41 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 850 53 8 186 87 20.4 2.69 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 850 63 17 186 87 18.0 3.45 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 900 78 32 186 87 3.5 5.37 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 925 87 40 186 87 3.5 5.83 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 1025 90 44 186 87 3.5 6.84 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 1175 87 47 186 87 3.5 5.74 13.6 Y
00:08:07 0 1325 90 64 186 87 3.5 6.84 12.3 Y
00:08:07 0 1450 91 74 186 87 3.9 6.84 12.1 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:08 0 1550 92 90 188 87 4.6 6.65 11.9 Y
00:08:08 0 1600 92 100 188 87 4.9 6.56 10.7 Y
00:08:08 0 1525 93 100 186 87 4.6 6.81 10.3 Y
00:08:08 0 1700 93 100 188 87 4.9 6.62 10.5 Y
00:08:08 0 1800 94 100 188 87 5.3 6.62 11.0 Y
00:08:08 0 1875 96 100 188 87 5.6 6.59 12.0 Y
00:08:08 0 1950 96 100 188 87 6.0 6.68 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 1975 97 100 188 87 6.0 6.68 12.9 Y
00:08:08 0 2000 98 100 188 87 6.0 6.53 13.2 Y
00:08:08 0 2050 99 100 188 87 6.7 6.71 13.2 Y
00:08:08 0 2100 99 100 188 87 7.0 6.71 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 2150 100 100 188 87 7.7 6.84 12.5 Y
00:08:08 0 2175 101 100 188 87 8.1 6.84 12.4 Y
00:08:08 0 2225 104 100 188 87 8.1 7.02 12.4 Y
00:08:08 0 2225 105 100 188 87 6.7 7.14 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 2250 107 100 188 87 6.7 7.23 12.5 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:09 0 2250 109 100 188 87 6.3 7.23 12.3 Y
00:08:09 0 2275 111 100 188 87 6.3 7.48 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2300 112 100 188 87 6.0 7.57 12.7 Y
00:08:09 0 2325 116 100 188 87 5.6 7.81 12.5 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 118 100 188 87 5.3 7.90 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 119 100 188 87 5.3 8.18 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 120 100 188 87 4.9 8.27 12.4 Y
00:08:09 0 2425 124 100 188 87 4.6 8.52 12.4 Y
Brakes off
00:08:09 0 2425 129 100 188 87 12.0 8.58 12.5 N
00:08:09 0 2450 129 100 188 87 13.4 8.76 12.5 N
00:08:09 0 2550 131 100 188 87 19.0 8.79 12.3 N
00:08:09 0 2700 135 100 188 87 22.2 8.82 12.1 N
00:08:09 0 2800 135 100 188 87 24.3 8.97 12.0 N
00:08:09 0 2900 138 100 188 87 24.6 9.25 11.9 N
Car begins to move
00:08:09 1 3050 144 100 188 87 23.9 9.77 11.9 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:10 2 3200 149 100 188 87 23.6 10.19 11.9 N
00:08:10 2 3325 157 100 188 87 23.2 10.74 11.4 N
00:08:10 5 3475 163 100 188 87 22.9 11.48 11.2 N
00:08:10 8 3600 171 100 188 87 22.9 11.57 11.1 N
00:08:10 8 3775 178 100 188 87 22.2 12.67 11.0 N
00:08:10 12 3925 189 100 188 87 21.1 12.97 11.2 N
00:08:10 15 4125 199 100 188 87 20.8 13.83 11.1 N
00:08:10 15 4200 208 100 188 87 20.8 14.56 11.3 N
00:08:10 18 4175 215 100 188 87 20.4 15.32 11.2 N
00:08:10 21 4175 215 100 188 87 20.4 15.11 11.3 N
00:08:10 21 4200 216 100 188 87 20.8 15.32 11.1 N
00:08:10 24 4200 221 100 188 87 20.4 15.44 11.0 N
00:08:10 28 4225 217 100 188 87 20.4 15.32 10.9 N
Obviously, lots of tire spin, since 0-> was about 1 sec..
Over...
Next launch:
Note while only 30 secs later MAT is lower.
Coolant is up 2d.
Stopped.
TPS increasing:
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:45 0 775 58 4 190 76 18.7 2.87 13.5 Y
00:08:45 0 775 59 5 190 76 18.7 2.87 13.6 Y
00:08:45 0 850 63 15 190 76 18.0 3.66 13.7 Y
00:08:45 0 925 68 20 190 76 3.5 4.49 13.8 Y
00:08:45 0 950 76 24 190 76 3.5 5.04 14.0 Y
00:08:45 0 975 84 40 190 76 3.5 5.68 14.1 Y
00:08:45 0 1100 88 47 190 76 3.5 6.04 13.7 Y
00:08:45 0 1100 88 47 190 76 3.5 6.87 12.7 Y
00:08:45 0 1200 88 48 190 76 3.5 6.99 11.8 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:46 0 1350 91 93 190 76 3.5 7.08 11.3 Y
00:08:46 0 1500 93 100 190 76 3.5 6.81 11.2 Y
00:08:46 0 1400 93 100 190 76 3.5 6.93 10.9 Y
00:08:46 0 1600 93 100 190 76 4.9 6.56 10.7 Y
00:08:46 0 1725 93 100 189 76 5.3 6.65 11.1 Y
00:08:46 0 1825 94 100 189 76 5.6 6.62 11.9 Y
00:08:46 0 1925 94 100 189 76 6.0 6.62 12.6 Y
00:08:46 0 1950 96 100 189 76 6.0 6.53 13.1 Y
00:08:46 0 1975 97 100 189 76 5.6 6.74 13.3 Y
00:08:46 0 1975 97 100 189 76 6.0 6.74 13.6 Y
00:08:46 0 2050 98 100 189 76 6.3 6.74 13.5 Y
00:08:46 0 2075 100 100 189 76 7.0 6.71 12.8 Y
00:08:46 0 2125 100 100 189 76 7.4 6.90 12.8 Y
00:08:46 0 2150 103 100 189 76 7.7 6.90 12.6 Y
00:08:46 0 2200 104 100 189 76 8.1 6.96 12.4 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:47 0 2250 104 100 189 76 7.0 7.17 12.6 Y
00:08:47 0 2250 106 100 189 76 6.7 7.17 12.6 Y
Brakes released.
00:08:47 0 2300 107 100 189 76 15.5 7.39 12.6 N
00:08:47 0 2350 110 100 189 76 13.7 7.39 12.6 N
00:08:47 0 2425 112 100 189 76 20.8 7.63 12.8 N
00:08:47 0 2500 112 100 189 76 25.0 7.69 12.4 N
00:08:47 0 2600 114 100 189 76 27.8 7.84 12.7 N
00:08:47 0 2650 118 100 189 76 28.5 8.09 12.3 N
00:08:47 0 2725 120 100 189 76 28.5 8.27 12.5 N
00:08:47 0 2775 122 100 189 76 28.2 8.33 12.4 N
00:08:47 0 2800 126 100 189 76 27.5 8.55 12.7 N
Car first moves.
00:08:47 1 2875 129 100 189 76 26.8 8.91 12.5 N
00:08:47 1 2900 132 100 189 76 25.3 9.22 12.5 N
00:08:47 2 2950 135 100 189 76 25.3 9.22 13.0 N
00:08:47 2 3025 140 100 189 76 23.9 9.64 12.6 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:48 4 3100 144 100 189 76 23.9 9.80 12.2 N
00:08:48 6 3175 149 100 189 76 23.6 10.44 12.5 N
00:08:48 6 3275 156 100 189 76 23.2 10.87 12.1 N
00:08:48 7 3350 164 100 189 76 22.9 11.75 11.8 N
00:08:48 9 3450 171 100 189 76 22.9 12.06 11.6 N
00:08:48 9 3550 181 100 189 76 19.0 12.76 11.4 N
00:08:48 11 3650 188 100 189 76 18.0 13.25 11.6 N
00:08:48 13 3775 199 100 189 76 16.9 13.76 11.6 N
00:08:48 13 3875 206 100 189 76 18.7 14.44 11.6 N
00:08:48 15 4025 209 100 189 76 18.3 14.83 11.5 N
00:08:48 17 4150 216 100 189 76 18.3 15.17 11.2 N
00:08:48 17 4225 219 100 189 76 19.4 15.63 11.2 N
00:08:48 19 4375 223 100 189 76 19.0 15.81 11.1 N
00:08:48 21 4300 216 100 189 76 19.4 15.50 11.0 N
00:08:48 21 4300 223 100 189 76 19.7 16.02 11.1 N
Over
Again, lots of wheel spin.
Next launch
20 secs. later
Stopped
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:12 0 625 51 0 188 71 23.9 2.41 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 650 53 0 188 71 23.9 2.53 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 650 53 0 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 675 53 1 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 675 54 1 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 725 55 1 188 71 20.8 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 775 53 1 188 71 19.4 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 800 53 1 188 71 20.4 2.62 13.4 Y
00:09:12 0 850 52 1 188 71 19.4 2.53 13.5 Y
00:09:12 0 875 54 14 188 71 6.7 2.81 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 875 91 100 188 71 3.5 7.57 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 925 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.20 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 1050 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.02 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 1250 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.11 12.0 Y
00:09:12 0 1425 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.02 11.7 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:13 0 1525 92 100 188 71 4.9 6.65 12.1 Y
00:09:13 0 1675 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.56 12.8 Y
00:09:13 0 1725 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.71 13.4 Y
00:09:13 0 1775 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.62 13.8 Y
00:09:13 0 1800 94 100 188 71 5.3 6.71 14.3 Y
00:09:13 0 1800 96 100 188 71 5.3 6.74 14.5 Y
00:09:13 0 1825 96 100 188 71 5.3 6.84 14.7 Y
00:09:13 0 1875 98 100 188 71 5.3 6.84 14.9 Y
00:09:13 0 1925 98 100 188 71 5.6 6.90 14.7 Y
00:09:13 0 2000 99 100 188 71 6.0 6.81 13.5 Y
00:09:13 0 2050 100 100 188 71 6.7 6.99 13.0 Y
00:09:13 0 2125 100 100 188 71 7.0 7.05 12.8 Y
00:09:13 0 2150 103 100 188 71 7.7 7.14 12.9 Y
00:09:13 0 2200 104 100 188 71 7.0 7.14 12.7 Y
00:09:13 0 2225 105 100 188 71 6.7 7.32 12.6 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:14 0 2250 106 100 188 71 6.7 7.42 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2250 109 100 188 71 6.3 7.42 12.7 Y
00:09:14 0 2275 112 100 188 71 6.0 7.66 12.7 Y
00:09:14 0 2300 113 100 188 71 6.0 7.75 12.4 Y
00:09:14 0 2325 116 100 188 71 5.6 8.00 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2350 117 100 188 71 5.3 8.09 12.6 Y
00:09:14 0 2375 120 100 188 71 5.3 8.09 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2400 124 100 188 71 4.9 8.42 12.6 Y
00:09:14 0 2425 124 100 188 71 4.6 8.76 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2425 129 100 188 71 4.2 9.03 12.4 Y
Brakes released
00:09:14 0 2450 131 100 188 71 6.7 9.09 12.6 N
00:09:14 0 2550 135 100 188 71 16.5 9.31 12.4 N
00:09:14 0 2700 135 100 188 71 20.8 9.28 12.4 N
00:09:14 0 2825 139 100 188 71 22.2 9.52 12.0 N
00:09:14 0 2900 145 100 188 71 23.9 9.83 12.3 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:15 0 3050 145 100 188 71 23.9 10.07 12.3 N
00:09:15 0 3250 151 100 188 71 23.2 10.44 11.9 N
Car first moves
00:09:15 1 3400 162 100 188 71 20.1 11.26 11.9 N
00:09:15 1 3475 168 100 188 71 20.1 11.96 11.3 N
00:09:15 5 3600 175 100 188 71 21.5 12.33 11.0 N
00:09:15 9 3800 188 100 188 71 20.1 13.34 11.6 N
00:09:15 9 3975 192 100 188 71 19.7 14.37 11.4 N
00:09:15 13 4175 204 100 188 71 16.9 14.92 11.4 N
00:09:15 16 4325 219 100 188 71 16.2 15.38 11.1 N
00:09:15 16 4300 221 100 188 71 16.2 15.60 11.3 N
00:09:15 19 4275 223 100 188 71 15.5 16.11 11.5 N
00:09:15 22 4200 228 100 188 71 13.0 16.24 11.2 N
00:09:15 22 4175 228 100 188 71 13.0 16.76 11.3 N
00:09:15 24 4100 229 100 188 71 16.5 16.66 11.4 N
00:09:15 26 4150 228 100 188 71 13.7 16.45 11.1 N
Yes, still lots of wheel spin
*************************************
ECMs are just the hardware part, it's the code the makes one really better then another. Having additon inputs might be nice, or even necessary but if the code less then optimum all the hardware in the world doesn't get you a thing.
There is a phase II to this Launch Code, and that does a progressive cylinder fuel drop, if the staging RPM *error* is too large.
And the total code change is maybe 2 dozen lines of code, out of 12,000.
Forcing people to change ignition types when there are alternate simple code answers, doesn't fall in the range of being user friendly, IMO.
Let's see, loading the motor up with unburnt fuel from cutting the spark, or maintaining a constant AFR, and no fuel loading?....
Stagging at ~3-4 PSI, and then once *launched*, almost instantly being at full boost. Could that just possibly be easier on parts?. Maybe we can get into a Potential Energy for launch discussion.......
no thoughts,
no wishful thinking,
no maybes,
no guessing,
no assumptions,
FACTS, and DATA....
Edited data log showing none interupted EST Launch Mode.
Traction Control Turned Off.
Since both use timing controls, for understanding the concept, the Traction Control was off.
Note:
With the roads being cold and seriously traction limited, the launch perimeters were backed down.
Observations
Launch MAP 120s, by the time the car first rolls about 150.
EGTS, while not datalogged were observed to be between 1,375dF, and 1,450 dF
AFRs ~12:1 while staged.
As the brakes are released, the luanch timing begins to decay back to normal.
As the timing begins to increase, the MAP does also.
(Note: the timing decay rate is adjustable)
EngRun= Time since engine started.
MPH= Miles Per Hour
RPM= Engine RPM
K/Pa= MAP
TPS= % TPS
CTSF= Coolant temp dF
MatF= Manifold Air Temp dF
SpkF= Actual spark advance (at crank)
PW= Pulse Width
WB= Wide Band Indicated AFR
PS= Tail light input (was Power Steering Pressure Switch)
TimeStamp: 11/29/2005 - 09:34:52
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:06 0 800 47 0 186 88 20.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 48 0 186 88 20.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 21.8 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 800 48 0 186 88 21.1 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 51 0 186 88 23.9 2.23 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 48 0 186 88 23.9 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.26 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.35 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 750 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 50 0 186 88 23.9 2.32 14.1 Y
00:08:06 0 775 52 0 186 88 23.9 2.35 14.1 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:07 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.1 2.35 14.1 Y
00:08:07 0 775 51 0 186 88 21.8 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 800 50 0 186 88 21.1 2.35 14.3 Y
Increasing TPS, 0 MPH, entering launch mode
00:08:07 0 825 50 1 186 88 20.1 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 800 51 1 186 88 18.7 2.35 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 825 52 2 186 88 20.4 2.32 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 825 51 4 186 87 20.4 2.41 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 850 53 8 186 87 20.4 2.69 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 850 63 17 186 87 18.0 3.45 14.3 Y
00:08:07 0 900 78 32 186 87 3.5 5.37 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 925 87 40 186 87 3.5 5.83 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 1025 90 44 186 87 3.5 6.84 14.2 Y
00:08:07 0 1175 87 47 186 87 3.5 5.74 13.6 Y
00:08:07 0 1325 90 64 186 87 3.5 6.84 12.3 Y
00:08:07 0 1450 91 74 186 87 3.9 6.84 12.1 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:08 0 1550 92 90 188 87 4.6 6.65 11.9 Y
00:08:08 0 1600 92 100 188 87 4.9 6.56 10.7 Y
00:08:08 0 1525 93 100 186 87 4.6 6.81 10.3 Y
00:08:08 0 1700 93 100 188 87 4.9 6.62 10.5 Y
00:08:08 0 1800 94 100 188 87 5.3 6.62 11.0 Y
00:08:08 0 1875 96 100 188 87 5.6 6.59 12.0 Y
00:08:08 0 1950 96 100 188 87 6.0 6.68 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 1975 97 100 188 87 6.0 6.68 12.9 Y
00:08:08 0 2000 98 100 188 87 6.0 6.53 13.2 Y
00:08:08 0 2050 99 100 188 87 6.7 6.71 13.2 Y
00:08:08 0 2100 99 100 188 87 7.0 6.71 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 2150 100 100 188 87 7.7 6.84 12.5 Y
00:08:08 0 2175 101 100 188 87 8.1 6.84 12.4 Y
00:08:08 0 2225 104 100 188 87 8.1 7.02 12.4 Y
00:08:08 0 2225 105 100 188 87 6.7 7.14 12.6 Y
00:08:08 0 2250 107 100 188 87 6.7 7.23 12.5 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:09 0 2250 109 100 188 87 6.3 7.23 12.3 Y
00:08:09 0 2275 111 100 188 87 6.3 7.48 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2300 112 100 188 87 6.0 7.57 12.7 Y
00:08:09 0 2325 116 100 188 87 5.6 7.81 12.5 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 118 100 188 87 5.3 7.90 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 119 100 188 87 5.3 8.18 12.6 Y
00:08:09 0 2350 120 100 188 87 4.9 8.27 12.4 Y
00:08:09 0 2425 124 100 188 87 4.6 8.52 12.4 Y
Brakes off
00:08:09 0 2425 129 100 188 87 12.0 8.58 12.5 N
00:08:09 0 2450 129 100 188 87 13.4 8.76 12.5 N
00:08:09 0 2550 131 100 188 87 19.0 8.79 12.3 N
00:08:09 0 2700 135 100 188 87 22.2 8.82 12.1 N
00:08:09 0 2800 135 100 188 87 24.3 8.97 12.0 N
00:08:09 0 2900 138 100 188 87 24.6 9.25 11.9 N
Car begins to move
00:08:09 1 3050 144 100 188 87 23.9 9.77 11.9 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:10 2 3200 149 100 188 87 23.6 10.19 11.9 N
00:08:10 2 3325 157 100 188 87 23.2 10.74 11.4 N
00:08:10 5 3475 163 100 188 87 22.9 11.48 11.2 N
00:08:10 8 3600 171 100 188 87 22.9 11.57 11.1 N
00:08:10 8 3775 178 100 188 87 22.2 12.67 11.0 N
00:08:10 12 3925 189 100 188 87 21.1 12.97 11.2 N
00:08:10 15 4125 199 100 188 87 20.8 13.83 11.1 N
00:08:10 15 4200 208 100 188 87 20.8 14.56 11.3 N
00:08:10 18 4175 215 100 188 87 20.4 15.32 11.2 N
00:08:10 21 4175 215 100 188 87 20.4 15.11 11.3 N
00:08:10 21 4200 216 100 188 87 20.8 15.32 11.1 N
00:08:10 24 4200 221 100 188 87 20.4 15.44 11.0 N
00:08:10 28 4225 217 100 188 87 20.4 15.32 10.9 N
Obviously, lots of tire spin, since 0-> was about 1 sec..
Over...
Next launch:
Note while only 30 secs later MAT is lower.
Coolant is up 2d.
Stopped.
TPS increasing:
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:45 0 775 58 4 190 76 18.7 2.87 13.5 Y
00:08:45 0 775 59 5 190 76 18.7 2.87 13.6 Y
00:08:45 0 850 63 15 190 76 18.0 3.66 13.7 Y
00:08:45 0 925 68 20 190 76 3.5 4.49 13.8 Y
00:08:45 0 950 76 24 190 76 3.5 5.04 14.0 Y
00:08:45 0 975 84 40 190 76 3.5 5.68 14.1 Y
00:08:45 0 1100 88 47 190 76 3.5 6.04 13.7 Y
00:08:45 0 1100 88 47 190 76 3.5 6.87 12.7 Y
00:08:45 0 1200 88 48 190 76 3.5 6.99 11.8 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:46 0 1350 91 93 190 76 3.5 7.08 11.3 Y
00:08:46 0 1500 93 100 190 76 3.5 6.81 11.2 Y
00:08:46 0 1400 93 100 190 76 3.5 6.93 10.9 Y
00:08:46 0 1600 93 100 190 76 4.9 6.56 10.7 Y
00:08:46 0 1725 93 100 189 76 5.3 6.65 11.1 Y
00:08:46 0 1825 94 100 189 76 5.6 6.62 11.9 Y
00:08:46 0 1925 94 100 189 76 6.0 6.62 12.6 Y
00:08:46 0 1950 96 100 189 76 6.0 6.53 13.1 Y
00:08:46 0 1975 97 100 189 76 5.6 6.74 13.3 Y
00:08:46 0 1975 97 100 189 76 6.0 6.74 13.6 Y
00:08:46 0 2050 98 100 189 76 6.3 6.74 13.5 Y
00:08:46 0 2075 100 100 189 76 7.0 6.71 12.8 Y
00:08:46 0 2125 100 100 189 76 7.4 6.90 12.8 Y
00:08:46 0 2150 103 100 189 76 7.7 6.90 12.6 Y
00:08:46 0 2200 104 100 189 76 8.1 6.96 12.4 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:47 0 2250 104 100 189 76 7.0 7.17 12.6 Y
00:08:47 0 2250 106 100 189 76 6.7 7.17 12.6 Y
Brakes released.
00:08:47 0 2300 107 100 189 76 15.5 7.39 12.6 N
00:08:47 0 2350 110 100 189 76 13.7 7.39 12.6 N
00:08:47 0 2425 112 100 189 76 20.8 7.63 12.8 N
00:08:47 0 2500 112 100 189 76 25.0 7.69 12.4 N
00:08:47 0 2600 114 100 189 76 27.8 7.84 12.7 N
00:08:47 0 2650 118 100 189 76 28.5 8.09 12.3 N
00:08:47 0 2725 120 100 189 76 28.5 8.27 12.5 N
00:08:47 0 2775 122 100 189 76 28.2 8.33 12.4 N
00:08:47 0 2800 126 100 189 76 27.5 8.55 12.7 N
Car first moves.
00:08:47 1 2875 129 100 189 76 26.8 8.91 12.5 N
00:08:47 1 2900 132 100 189 76 25.3 9.22 12.5 N
00:08:47 2 2950 135 100 189 76 25.3 9.22 13.0 N
00:08:47 2 3025 140 100 189 76 23.9 9.64 12.6 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:08:48 4 3100 144 100 189 76 23.9 9.80 12.2 N
00:08:48 6 3175 149 100 189 76 23.6 10.44 12.5 N
00:08:48 6 3275 156 100 189 76 23.2 10.87 12.1 N
00:08:48 7 3350 164 100 189 76 22.9 11.75 11.8 N
00:08:48 9 3450 171 100 189 76 22.9 12.06 11.6 N
00:08:48 9 3550 181 100 189 76 19.0 12.76 11.4 N
00:08:48 11 3650 188 100 189 76 18.0 13.25 11.6 N
00:08:48 13 3775 199 100 189 76 16.9 13.76 11.6 N
00:08:48 13 3875 206 100 189 76 18.7 14.44 11.6 N
00:08:48 15 4025 209 100 189 76 18.3 14.83 11.5 N
00:08:48 17 4150 216 100 189 76 18.3 15.17 11.2 N
00:08:48 17 4225 219 100 189 76 19.4 15.63 11.2 N
00:08:48 19 4375 223 100 189 76 19.0 15.81 11.1 N
00:08:48 21 4300 216 100 189 76 19.4 15.50 11.0 N
00:08:48 21 4300 223 100 189 76 19.7 16.02 11.1 N
Over
Again, lots of wheel spin.
Next launch
20 secs. later
Stopped
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:12 0 625 51 0 188 71 23.9 2.41 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 650 53 0 188 71 23.9 2.53 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 650 53 0 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 675 53 1 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 675 54 1 188 71 23.6 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 725 55 1 188 71 20.8 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 775 53 1 188 71 19.4 2.62 13.3 Y
00:09:12 0 800 53 1 188 71 20.4 2.62 13.4 Y
00:09:12 0 850 52 1 188 71 19.4 2.53 13.5 Y
00:09:12 0 875 54 14 188 71 6.7 2.81 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 875 91 100 188 71 3.5 7.57 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 925 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.20 13.7 Y
00:09:12 0 1050 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.02 13.2 Y
00:09:12 0 1250 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.11 12.0 Y
00:09:12 0 1425 92 100 188 71 3.5 7.02 11.7 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:13 0 1525 92 100 188 71 4.9 6.65 12.1 Y
00:09:13 0 1675 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.56 12.8 Y
00:09:13 0 1725 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.71 13.4 Y
00:09:13 0 1775 93 100 188 71 5.3 6.62 13.8 Y
00:09:13 0 1800 94 100 188 71 5.3 6.71 14.3 Y
00:09:13 0 1800 96 100 188 71 5.3 6.74 14.5 Y
00:09:13 0 1825 96 100 188 71 5.3 6.84 14.7 Y
00:09:13 0 1875 98 100 188 71 5.3 6.84 14.9 Y
00:09:13 0 1925 98 100 188 71 5.6 6.90 14.7 Y
00:09:13 0 2000 99 100 188 71 6.0 6.81 13.5 Y
00:09:13 0 2050 100 100 188 71 6.7 6.99 13.0 Y
00:09:13 0 2125 100 100 188 71 7.0 7.05 12.8 Y
00:09:13 0 2150 103 100 188 71 7.7 7.14 12.9 Y
00:09:13 0 2200 104 100 188 71 7.0 7.14 12.7 Y
00:09:13 0 2225 105 100 188 71 6.7 7.32 12.6 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:14 0 2250 106 100 188 71 6.7 7.42 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2250 109 100 188 71 6.3 7.42 12.7 Y
00:09:14 0 2275 112 100 188 71 6.0 7.66 12.7 Y
00:09:14 0 2300 113 100 188 71 6.0 7.75 12.4 Y
00:09:14 0 2325 116 100 188 71 5.6 8.00 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2350 117 100 188 71 5.3 8.09 12.6 Y
00:09:14 0 2375 120 100 188 71 5.3 8.09 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2400 124 100 188 71 4.9 8.42 12.6 Y
00:09:14 0 2425 124 100 188 71 4.6 8.76 12.5 Y
00:09:14 0 2425 129 100 188 71 4.2 9.03 12.4 Y
Brakes released
00:09:14 0 2450 131 100 188 71 6.7 9.09 12.6 N
00:09:14 0 2550 135 100 188 71 16.5 9.31 12.4 N
00:09:14 0 2700 135 100 188 71 20.8 9.28 12.4 N
00:09:14 0 2825 139 100 188 71 22.2 9.52 12.0 N
00:09:14 0 2900 145 100 188 71 23.9 9.83 12.3 N
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:09:15 0 3050 145 100 188 71 23.9 10.07 12.3 N
00:09:15 0 3250 151 100 188 71 23.2 10.44 11.9 N
Car first moves
00:09:15 1 3400 162 100 188 71 20.1 11.26 11.9 N
00:09:15 1 3475 168 100 188 71 20.1 11.96 11.3 N
00:09:15 5 3600 175 100 188 71 21.5 12.33 11.0 N
00:09:15 9 3800 188 100 188 71 20.1 13.34 11.6 N
00:09:15 9 3975 192 100 188 71 19.7 14.37 11.4 N
00:09:15 13 4175 204 100 188 71 16.9 14.92 11.4 N
00:09:15 16 4325 219 100 188 71 16.2 15.38 11.1 N
00:09:15 16 4300 221 100 188 71 16.2 15.60 11.3 N
00:09:15 19 4275 223 100 188 71 15.5 16.11 11.5 N
00:09:15 22 4200 228 100 188 71 13.0 16.24 11.2 N
00:09:15 22 4175 228 100 188 71 13.0 16.76 11.3 N
00:09:15 24 4100 229 100 188 71 16.5 16.66 11.4 N
00:09:15 26 4150 228 100 188 71 13.7 16.45 11.1 N
Yes, still lots of wheel spin
*************************************
ECMs are just the hardware part, it's the code the makes one really better then another. Having additon inputs might be nice, or even necessary but if the code less then optimum all the hardware in the world doesn't get you a thing.
There is a phase II to this Launch Code, and that does a progressive cylinder fuel drop, if the staging RPM *error* is too large.
And the total code change is maybe 2 dozen lines of code, out of 12,000.
Forcing people to change ignition types when there are alternate simple code answers, doesn't fall in the range of being user friendly, IMO.
Let's see, loading the motor up with unburnt fuel from cutting the spark, or maintaining a constant AFR, and no fuel loading?....
Stagging at ~3-4 PSI, and then once *launched*, almost instantly being at full boost. Could that just possibly be easier on parts?. Maybe we can get into a Potential Energy for launch discussion.......
norbs said:
Correct the factory code doesn't cut the EST.
That was brought up, as one reason for swapping to a distributor, since some of the aftermarket code, interupted the EST line.
HOWEVER, there is no need to cut the EST for traction control, launch mode, boost limiting, rev limiting, etc..
Cutting the ignition pulses is a very quick and easy answer.
Using RPM error based corrections isn't that difficult to do, and doesn't limit folks to a particular ignition type (as I mentioned 2 dozen'ish lines of code). While the Dissy, *might* be the best answer for an 8 sec. car, there have been cars going into the 9s with DIS.
norbs said:Here's your answer:
Nice.
I hope others remember your gratitude, when dealing with you in the future, I know I will. You might also wonder why in the future there are fewer and fewer people willing to talk about things, without wanting to sell you a *new and improved ecm*.......
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
bruce said:
Put a clutch in it, you'll see!
EightSecV6 said:
Norbs is running a clutch?.
You got a link to that?.
BTW, using an RPM error strategy/ timing/ progessive fuel cut (by cylinder), makes the transmission type irrelevant.
Maybe in another 3-4 generations, of aftermarket ecms, they'll afford you the ability to see how it all works. In the mean time, just be happy with what they're willing to sell you. That way, they'll be able to always have a *new and improved* ecm.
Oh, and BTW, all it takes is an option byte to select any portion of either system.
So rather then ask the powers to be to give folks the option of not having to cut the EST line, ya'll want to argue about something, that I doubt any of you have tried.
Im not really listening to much of this junk on code and ecms and whatnot, as its really irrelevant here.
What you guys are arguing over has to do with the simple question, would a swap to a distributor give a corresponding increase in horsepower by somehow eliminating electrical load, decreasing resistance when firing one plug instead of two at a time, etc.
Its entirely possible but it would depend on too many variables to decide in a discussion like this.
What you should do is decide what you want out of an ignition system, and then work to achieve that whether it be using a dist, cnp, waste spark, etc.
1. You want a longer duration spark, not multiple sparks for efficient burn, as bruce mentioned.
2. You want a spark that wont blow out or weaken under high boost conditions.
3. If you reduce the number of spark gaps in a circuit(or decrease the resistance across the gap), your saving spark energy to use where you need it. Distributors have just as many spark gaps as your stock ignition, yet one exists under different conditions including temperature, pressure, metal composition, motion, and gap measure. All these differences certainly have an affect on the resulting spark at the spark plug.
4. This talk about excess fuel taking up the slack for inadaquate ignition or burn is simple too. Always choose less fuel. Why put it in there if your not going to convert it to mechanical energy with efficiency in mind? I hate the idea of quenching with fuel, and i hate the idea of unburned fuel after the combustion process. I dont like my headers glowing from fuel burning in the tubes, its a waste, period, whether the turbo spools faster or not. Its never a win situation, always a band aid for inadequacies somewhere else in the system. While it may work, it can be done better, but its not necessarily a trade off between ign. and fuel. Why not focus on the fuel system too in this matter?
You guys all are entitled to your own opinions, and so am I. I think a distributor in this case could give an improvement in ignition system efficiency . I dont know if it will or not because i havent tested it, but there if there is a possibility, you cannot shoot it down until you test it and disprove the theory.
Look at everything with an open mind. If you can change it, do it, if not, move on.
Find what meets the criteria of your goal in the most efficient way, and you have your best choice. On the 8 sec. car going thru coil packs every 10 passes, thats not cost efficient whether its electrically efficient or not. Buy a damn distributor. geeze.
What you guys are arguing over has to do with the simple question, would a swap to a distributor give a corresponding increase in horsepower by somehow eliminating electrical load, decreasing resistance when firing one plug instead of two at a time, etc.
Its entirely possible but it would depend on too many variables to decide in a discussion like this.
What you should do is decide what you want out of an ignition system, and then work to achieve that whether it be using a dist, cnp, waste spark, etc.
1. You want a longer duration spark, not multiple sparks for efficient burn, as bruce mentioned.
2. You want a spark that wont blow out or weaken under high boost conditions.
3. If you reduce the number of spark gaps in a circuit(or decrease the resistance across the gap), your saving spark energy to use where you need it. Distributors have just as many spark gaps as your stock ignition, yet one exists under different conditions including temperature, pressure, metal composition, motion, and gap measure. All these differences certainly have an affect on the resulting spark at the spark plug.
4. This talk about excess fuel taking up the slack for inadaquate ignition or burn is simple too. Always choose less fuel. Why put it in there if your not going to convert it to mechanical energy with efficiency in mind? I hate the idea of quenching with fuel, and i hate the idea of unburned fuel after the combustion process. I dont like my headers glowing from fuel burning in the tubes, its a waste, period, whether the turbo spools faster or not. Its never a win situation, always a band aid for inadequacies somewhere else in the system. While it may work, it can be done better, but its not necessarily a trade off between ign. and fuel. Why not focus on the fuel system too in this matter?
You guys all are entitled to your own opinions, and so am I. I think a distributor in this case could give an improvement in ignition system efficiency . I dont know if it will or not because i havent tested it, but there if there is a possibility, you cannot shoot it down until you test it and disprove the theory.
Look at everything with an open mind. If you can change it, do it, if not, move on.
Find what meets the criteria of your goal in the most efficient way, and you have your best choice. On the 8 sec. car going thru coil packs every 10 passes, thats not cost efficient whether its electrically efficient or not. Buy a damn distributor. geeze.
Not to sound stupid but the EST line to the module is the final output from the ECM to the module for timing advance correct. In the older cars you always unplugged the EST to set base timing right off the triggering device. So if the EST line is not working or interupted your just running on base timing/or no ECM controlled advance. Seems like were beating a dead horse. I replaced a thousand coilpacks and modules on stock vehicles. They die faster than flies,the more we try to strech the limits of stock parts the more they will fail. I just bought a stage 2 with the coilpack and coils on it there going in the garbage and going to a dist. Why because they wont hold up period.
bruce said:
As bill said if you have a clutch or When you can 2 step before the stall of the converter the boost will come up before the enigine is under a load making it easier to spool a big turbo with a tight converter and stage the car at the tree. The higher the boost the easier it is to climb into the converter. Not stuck on the idea of the only way. Ign cut just works not saying there is nothing better. I am trying to understand the concept of what you are talking about. Not that I think that it will or wont work. I do not understand how you are going to spool the turbo to get the engine on the pipe with no fuel or reduced fuel. Yes the ignition cut with the dist is pretty damn smooth. I was shocked.
chevyII said:
In the case of the stock 86/87 C3I when you cut the est it looses sink and can not resink till the cam sensor comes back around. So you never know what cylinder is going to fire. The reason that some of us have gone to a dist is ignition control and reasons you mentioned.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
I will say this Bruce, its pretty damn cool how you got the stock ECM to drop all that timing during brake boosting and then have it come right back as soon as the brakes released. 
That thing must spool like madd.
It looks like you are only torquing to about 2500 and then letting it loose.
Whats stall is in the car?
Turbo?
What psi are those launches at, the 3-4psi that you mentioned above?
I could not find a consistant place where the ecm was seeing when to drop all the timing, it appeared as if around 20% TPS is dropped. Are you doing it at a specific TPS at 0mph or a combination?
Pretty cool to say the least.
Now why can't you sell these ECM's Bruce??
Seeing a manual spool and get boost due to a studder box was pretty cool, the DSM's and now leaving at 4500rpm and around 5psi.
That thing must spool like madd.
It looks like you are only torquing to about 2500 and then letting it loose.
Whats stall is in the car?
Turbo?
What psi are those launches at, the 3-4psi that you mentioned above?
I could not find a consistant place where the ecm was seeing when to drop all the timing, it appeared as if around 20% TPS is dropped. Are you doing it at a specific TPS at 0mph or a combination?
Pretty cool to say the least.
Now why can't you sell these ECM's Bruce??
Seeing a manual spool and get boost due to a studder box was pretty cool, the DSM's and now leaving at 4500rpm and around 5psi.
DR.BOOSTER said:I will say this Bruce, its pretty damn cool how you got the stock ECM to drop all that timing during brake boosting and then have it come right back as soon as the brakes released.
That thing must spool like madd.
It looks like you are only torquing to about 2500 and then letting it loose.
Whats stall is in the car?
Turbo?
What psi are those launches at, the 3-4psi that you mentioned above?
I could not find a consistant place where the ecm was seeing when to drop all the timing, it appeared as if around 20% TPS is dropped. Are you doing it at a specific TPS at 0mph or a combination?
Pretty cool to say the least.
Now why can't you sell these ECM's Bruce??
Seeing a manual spool and get boost due to a studder box was pretty cool, the DSM's and now leaving at 4500rpm and around 5psi.
It's all adjustable.....
The launch mode has a number of enables/ thresholds.
Enable TPS, and then Disable TPS, so *you* can't wander between it being enabled or not.
VSS, 0 for drag racing, or say 25 MPH if you want to play *from a roll*.
Then the target RPM.
Then timing retard based on the staging RPM error.
Then a decay rate, 0 (or close to it) for running slicks, or 255 if your on small street tires.
While it might sound complicated, for most any car, half a dozen launches, would get it real close.
Yank, 2,850 (at 0 PSI) stall.
The roads are slick so dialing the specs up would only worsen the tire spin. Like I said I had the traction control turned off, so as to show how the timing part worked.
This is just a hobby for me, all I intended to do was open people's eyes to what they could have if they just asked the powers to be, to *just do it*.
BTW, there's a few other tricks, that the aftermarkets aren't doing yet, and I'm sure if people just asked, they'd respond. Without informed customers, they don't have any reason to progess other then for the next generation....
There's little that can't be done with code, once you figure out what needs solved.
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