Will a distributor fit with stock setup?

Do you think a distributer on a 9-10 second car will ....

  • Reduce hp compared to wastespark?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Increase hp over wastespark?

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Do nothing, just a waste of time/money?

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Drive Bruce over the Edge.

    Votes: 10 52.6%

  • Total voters
    19
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Okay so I did some more research and it seems to me that there might be even another sollution to the waste spark systems or a dist. What about using the "linkplus" system with a coil on plug Ign set up :eek: ?


Id like to hear some fead back on this set up
 
Bruce are you hinting at people like Caspers or TurboTweak being able to do this with the chips if they were asked?

I am surprised I have not heard of this before out the FTS camp with Bob Bailey, that guys on top of everything.
 
DR.BOOSTER said:
Bruce are you hinting at people like Caspers or TurboTweak being able to do this with the chips if they were asked?

I am surprised I have not heard of this before out the FTS camp with Bob Bailey, that guys on top of everything.


I don't know how much room that have to add that much code in the stock
code. They have to cut out code to be able to add may of the features, they've added. While I'm using a stock ecm, it's been modified so that I have access to all the code. The stock ecm has about 1/3 of the code on the PROM, and the rest is hard-wired into the ecm. *My* ecm has all the code on just the chip, then the code was rewritten to fit on the chip, and then the ecm was also rewired for allowing a MAP input.

Being that this is just a hpbby for me, I can put all the time in the world into it. The commercial guys, have to restrict their work so that it pays the bills. FWIW, it took almost a year to rewrite the code to fit on the chip, and then 3 more years getting the code refined enough to really be user friendly. Now in the last year or so, I've really been able to see what the car likes, and talk some what intelligently about it.

And yes, talking with Mr Bailey, will definetly let you know he's one of the good guys.
 
ttypewe4jim said:
What about using the "linkplus" system with a coil on plug Ign set up

Why not just use the eDIst?.
American made, and alot closer for tech help.
I ran a eDist for a couple years on my GN.

As I mentioned earlier, MSD is coming out with a whole series of CNP components, and those married with eDist, and CD might be the ultimate answer.
 
bruce said:
I don't know how much room that have to add that much code in the stock
code. They have to cut out code to be able to add may of the features, they've added. While I'm using a stock ecm, it's been modified so that I have access to all the code. The stock ecm has about 1/3 of the code on the PROM, and the rest is hard-wired into the ecm. *My* ecm has all the code on just the chip, then the code was rewritten to fit on the chip, and then the ecm was also rewired for allowing a MAP input.

Being that this is just a hpbby for me, I can put all the time in the world into it. The commercial guys, have to restrict their work so that it pays the bills. FWIW, it took almost a year to rewrite the code to fit on the chip, and then 3 more years getting the code refined enough to really be user friendly. Now in the last year or so, I've really been able to see what the car likes, and talk some what intelligently about it.

And yes, talking with Mr Bailey, will definetly let you know he's one of the good guys.

***edit***

Nm see you responded
 
EightSecV6 said:
I dont know what he is running Bruce, but that is where building boost with no load becomes a necessity

What is it the you're not getting?. I already stated, the tranny type doesn't matter.

Did you read my posting where I talked about the enables/ thresholds?. It's all based on what RPM you want to hold. For an automatic car, you want to be somewhere around the stall speed of the converter, with a manual, you can set the target RPM to what ever RPM you want.
 
bruce said:
What is it the you're not getting?. I already stated, the tranny type doesn't matter.

Did you read my posting where I talked about the enables/ thresholds?. It's all based on what RPM you want to hold. For an automatic car, you want to be somewhere around the stall speed of the converter, with a manual, you can set the target RPM to what ever RPM you want.

So are you saying that if you took an automatic car and put it in neutral and pinned the throttle to the rev limiter it would build boost at the "target" rpm?
 
anyway

i have been asking about the parts to do this with if your going to a msd crank trigger. so far this is what i have---- msd 8630 crank trigger.(cant find it on the summit website) msd billet dist. for even fire buick v6 . msd 8551. is this the right one to modifie for a cam signal and ind. cylinder control? hvc coil msd 8261. and of course a 7al box. am i on the right track?
 
LV GN said:
i have been asking about the parts to do this with if your going to a msd crank trigger. so far this is what i have---- msd 8630 crank trigger.(cant find it on the summit website) msd billet dist. for even fire buick v6 . msd 8551. is this the right one to modifie for a cam signal and ind. cylinder control? hvc coil msd 8261. and of course a 7al box. am i on the right track?

Use the MSD Pro Power coil, the 7al2 must be for an even fire V6 and you will have to modify the distributor ( lock out the advance and cut off 5 of the 6 reluctor tabs as well as move it a few degrees on the shaft)
 
EightSecV6 said:
So are you saying that if you took an automatic car and put it in neutral and pinned the throttle to the rev limiter it would build boost at the "target" rpm?

Why wouldn't it?.

BTW, in all this EST **problem** talk, it seems no one is considering using a coil interupt, between the coils and module. That way even the stock DIS system would be happy...
 
bruce said:
Why wouldn't it?.

BTW, in all this EST **problem** talk, it seems no one is considering using a coil interupt, between the coils and module. That way even the stock DIS system would be happy...


Bruce,
Just for kicks, try it on your car and tell me the results! Wanna bet it wont work?
 
EightSecV6 said:
Bruce,
Just for kicks, try it on your car and tell me the results! Wanna bet it wont work?

Instead of going with the *wanna bet, or just for kicks* tactics, let's try and hold an intelligent discussion of why it wouldn't work.

I've documented what I claimed, while you might not like it, there it is. Now let's see you document what you're claiming, and in a format available for all to veiw. Timing, PS, WB, wtc. etc.. I'm all for playing show and tell, it's your turn now. Getting back to the issues, it's based on an RPM error, maybe that doesn't mean much to you, but well, that's not my problem.

BTW, did you really look at the logs I posted?. Did you see what the boost was doing?.

Let's see some of what you're claiming (data log), in a format all can see.
 
My $0.02 (With DOUBLE flaming suit on)
While I got lost at the starting line like most of the readers (I think) I can see two lines of philosophy and thinkers:

1 Maximize the potential of the OEM system and performance of the vehicle through programming.
2 Maximize the potential of the car and performance through parts replacement.

I am probably sticking my foot in my mouth (as a novice) but I am AMAZED (again) at the depth of knowledge on this board.
I would guess that the other boards are not as lucky!

PS: I would fit in the first general category of thinkers. :D
 
bruce said:
Why wouldn't it?.
Well, in your logs the boost doesn't go above 0 psi until you are only a few hundred rpm away from the stall speed of your converter (> 100 kPa at about 2400 rpm; you posted the stall as 2850), so you are starting to get some engine loading at the same time the boost is coming up. This makes it easier to build boost, with or without your assist scheme, and makes it more difficult to see the effect of just the launch assist. Listing the possiblities: your launch assist may work as you have it configured with zero load (auto trans in neutral or manual with clutch pushed in), it may work with some retuning, or it may not work. Inquiring minds want to know which possibility is correct, and it's a trivially simple test to perform.
 
ijames said:
Well, in your logs the boost doesn't go above 0 psi until you are only a few hundred rpm away from the stall speed of your converter (> 100 kPa at about 2400 rpm; you posted the stall as 2850), so you are starting to get some engine loading at the same time the boost is coming up. This makes it easier to build boost, with or without your assist scheme, and makes it more difficult to see the effect of just the launch assist. Listing the possiblities: your launch assist may work as you have it configured with zero load (auto trans in neutral or manual with clutch pushed in), it may work with some retuning, or it may not work. Inquiring minds want to know which possibility is correct, and it's a trivially simple test to perform.

Thread is getting off topic a bit BUT I can assure you , with my distributor setup and launch assist "scheme", I can get a PT98 to 20psi in less than 1.5 seconds in neutral or with the clutch pushed in. :D :D :D
 
EightSecV6 said:
Thread is getting off topic a bit BUT I can assure you , with my distributor setup and launch assist "scheme", I can get a PT98 to 20psi in less than 1.5 seconds in neutral or with the clutch pushed in. :D :D :D


That is sick what would it take with a converter? ;)
 
ijames said:
Well, in your logs the boost doesn't go above 0 psi until you are only a few hundred rpm away from the stall speed of your converter (> 100 kPa at about 2400 rpm; you posted the stall as 2850), so you are starting to get some engine loading at the same time the boost is coming up. This makes it easier to build boost, with or without your assist scheme, and makes it more difficult to see the effect of just the launch assist. Listing the possiblities: your launch assist may work as you have it configured with zero load (auto trans in neutral or manual with clutch pushed in), it may work with some retuning, or it may not work. Inquiring minds want to know which possibility is correct, and it's a trivially simple test to perform.

The only problem is that this is getting way off topic.
Beings that I have source code, I can do whatever my imagination can create. I can run a WB closed loop for any situation or condition, I can do anything I want with my timing, and cyl fuel drop.

The intial topic was about having to go to a distributor because of HP gain, and then the original poster talked about the other strategies that were EST limited.
I wrote, and then looged to prove what I had to say.

As far as a standing still WOT, at full RPM, no I won't do that. It's not about the code, it's about the type of car and useage. Let's see Eightsecv6 drive his car for 70,000 miles. It's not designed for that.

The *original point* was that the aftermarket guys could generate code to allow boost, launch, and rev limiting, **WITHOUT HAVING** to interupt the EST line.

The **problem** is the aftermarket ecm locking others in, on items that only take a few lines of code to change, and/or option flags to allow using various strategies.

My car runs just the way I want. I have the source code, and can do whatever I want, once again the point of my postings, were about getting the aftermarkets not to force people into buying megabuck updates, having to rip out things, and refab others.

It is interesting in that the *pro* tuners, and vendors, are just so dead set against anything that's different from the *established norm*, or what they just happen to get handed in the way of a product. In doubt?, look at how long the Gen VI was sold with about 0 in the way of updates. If you really want to see how behind the aftermarket stuff is, get a GM race ecm from the late 80s, and disassemble that, and see what good code does. The latest greatest commercial stuff I've seen so far that's reasonably priced is still 20 years behind, code wise. And it's not that difficult to do, once one's dealing with source code, like they are. If as customers folks don't ask for better, then they'll rarely see it.
 
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