#1 TDC questions need some help!!!

[Danster]

Ok guys, I need your help on this one. I have unsuccessfully tried changing the timing chain (first time). When I disassembled everything I thought I had it at #1 TDC. After removal I noticed the gears were not line up dot to dot. I then put on the crank bolt and turned by hand to line up the dot's. After reassembled and trying to set the cam sensor numerous times I have not been able to start the car.

I went ahead and removed the drivers side valve cover so I can view the valve springs to help find #1 TDC. I understand the two should be closed. Does closed mean compressed or decompressed?? I noticed as i turn the intercooler fan both do not compress at any given time. Is this correct?

Can you guys tell me where I'm at here. Do I need to remove the front cover again.

Help!! Figures my luck


Dannyo

 

[timothydog]

Sucks you are having troubles Danny.


Both valves closed would mean both springs uncompressed.

There are some other methods of finding TDC too. I hear they make this thing that screws into the spark plug hole that makes a whistling noise until the piston reaches the top of it's stroke. You may be able to place your finger over the hole and feel the air exiting too if you turn it slowly.

Good luck. I'm sure others will chime in soon.

 

[Danster]

Thanks Timothydog! Great, then I might be ok. I thought closed meant both springs compressed I'll try it again since I now understand and have them both closed at the moment. So this means I should be at #1 TDC, so at this point I should removed the CTS and then move it to 25* ATDC then insert back the CTS and adjust the sensor, correct?


Dannyo

 

[timothydog]

Danster,
It's been almost 3 years since I replaced my stock chain so everything isn't exactly fresh in my memory. I'm sure someone can verify what is left to do. I don't want to give you any bad instructions.

As far as the valves go, the spring tension pulls the valves up and closed. So a closed valve means the spring is least compressed.

 

[Danster]

I verified both valve springs were closed (least compressed) and sna the square notch lined with 0 at the pointer. I then moved 25* ATDC (moved the balancer clockwise) insert the CTS and probed the blue wire with an analog meter. Adjusted to 7 volts and move back to 0 volts and tighten the bolt. Still not firing up????

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions????


Dannyo

 

[Steve Wood]

gave you some guidelines in your original thread

 

[Jimn8or]

Is the crank sensor set to .025" clnc on the balancer rings? Did you plug the orange ECM wire back in? K.I.S.S.
Jim

 

[Steve Wood]

Originally posted by Jimn8or
Is the crank sensor set to .025" clnc on the balancer rings? Did you plug the orange ECM wire back in? K.I.S.S.
Jim

And did you put the the balancer thru the right slot on the crank sensor?

 

[6=8]

Crankshaft Sensor OK?

I did my 145,000 mile chain replacement about 3 months ago, and while I didn't run into your problem, I did have a fun time with the crankshaft sensor wires. It was a little tough getting the cover back on and the wires to the crank sensor routed properly.

Is there any chance this sensor or the wires are giving you problems?

I noticed someone suggested checking for spark. Were you able to do this? If you do not have spark, this might be another consideration.

Good Luck!

 

[tazgn]

Cam Sensor...
I saw you adjusted the cam sensor from 7 volts to 0 volts like your supposed to, but were you turning it the right way for this? There is actually 2 different points that it will do this depending on which way you turn it (CW vice CCW). I'm pretty sure you need to turn it CCW but not sure. Detailed instructions are on GNTTYPE.org. And, speaking from experience, if you've been casually having a drink or two while setting this, the CW and CCW can get confusing and if your like me, you'll get it backwards ...

And the crank sensor would be another good place to look since you had to "disturb" it to get the cover off...

Derrick

P.S. If you adjust the cam sensor in the wrong direction, the car will not start. Troubleshot my CW vrs CCW problem for 2 days before I figured that one out.

 

[Danster]

Originally posted by Jimn8or
Is the crank sensor set to .025" clnc on the balancer rings? Did you plug the orange ECM wire back in? K.I.S.S.
Jim

Jim, don't understand what you mean in your first sentence. Orange ECM is/was connected.

Dannyo

 

[Danster]

Originally posted by Steve Wood


And did you put the the balancer thru the right slot on the crank sensor?

The balancer can only go on oneway, correct? I did go back to verify that I was on the compression stroke by looking at the valve springs.


Dannyo

 

[tazgn]

The crank sensor has two slots in it that the interrupter ring goes through. It should only go through one slot and I don't remember which one (been a little while). But if it goes through the other slot it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure it goes through the slot closest to the electrical conector, but once again, going on long term memory.

Derrick

 

[Steve Wood]

Farest from the connector.

 

[Danster]

I'll check the crank connector after work today. The sensor sits on a vertical bracket mounted to the front cover. The crank sensor connector sits on this bracket horizontal, correct? So would the connector be closer to the front cover or further to the front of car?

Just trying to make sure I understand what your trying to tell me.

Thanks!

Dannyo

 

[Danster]

I posted a question in gnttype.org regarding the installation of the timing chain. I assumed I was at the #1 TDC on the compression stroke. Never the less, I lined up the gears dot to dot and changed the old to new. I was told on the other site I should have then rotated another 360 degrees to have both dots at 12 o'clock. So does this mean the cam is out 180 degrees??
The instructions did not mention to have both dots at 12 o'clock.
What's the proper way when #1 is at TDC, dot to dot or both dots at 12 o'clock

As you can tell I'm really confused now Should I redo it and set it correctly or will it run just the same with the cam 180 degrees out??

Dannyo

 

[Steve Wood]

dot on the cam gear at the bottom, dot on the crank gear at the top....pointing straight at one another.

I will send you a crank sensor picture by email.

 

[Danster]

Got the pic, thanks! I will verify this after work today.

Dannyo

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

if the chain was dot to dot it will be fine there is no 180 out.

what has me wondering here is did you turn the crank 25 degrees after tdc or did you turn it 1/4 turn?

it should be 25 degrees to the right of the tdc mark ....

and then you slowly rotate the cam sensor counter clockwise till voltage drops.

you can test the crank sensor just like the cam sensor by probing it and rotating the crank and see if voltage goes u and down.
if it does then its good

 

[Danster]

Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
if the chain was dot to dot it will be fine there is no 180 out.

what has me wondering here is did you turn the crank 25 degrees after tdc or did you turn it 1/4 turn?

it should be 25 degrees to the right of the tdc mark ....

and then you slowly rotate the cam sensor counter clockwise till voltage drops.

you can test the crank sensor just like the cam sensor by probing it and rotating the crank and see if voltage goes u and down.
if it does then its good

I cut a piece of tape (1 7/16") and taped it to the left of the 0 mark which in my case when at TDC would be the square notch on harmonic balancer. When at #1 TDC, I moved the crank clockwise to the edge of the tape. Does this sound about right?

Dannyo