109 Block Rebuild

[turbotony1]

Hi. I'm new to the site and LOVE the responses I've been getting from everyone so far! I'm rebuilding my stock 109 87 Turbo T (100,000mi.) The car was owned by an elderly couple since new. The motor probably never saw 4,000 RPM until I bought it 5,000 miles ago. I'm aiming for 600 + engine H.P. I will put plenty of street and strip miles on it.
The engine has never been rebuilt before. With the amount of power I plan on making, I have read a lot about reinforcing the bottom end. I don't know what route to go with it? I'm trying to be as easy on my wallet as possible.

Replace stock caps with billet steel caps?
Girdle with stock caps?
Girdle with two center billet caps?
Stronger crank with two center caps?
Stronger crank by itself?

Would internal balancing and a good fluid dampener have much effect?

I will be running a roller cam and roller rockers, ported heads, a 61-66 mm turbo, JE or Diamond pistons and have my rods re-conditioned. So I assume the motor will definitely see 6,000 RPM+ or -.

I know this is an opinionated subject, and there are lots of different theories. However, I'm just looking for the most cost effective way to get this engine up and running.

I'm just hoping to use some of the experience that many of you have on this web site. I'm hope someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance,
Anthony

 

[HelloBozos]

I run billet mains,109 block, gn1 storker kit an heads,Works Great! got 2000 miles on motor so far, that includes racing many Motorcycles...heh

Enjoy!

 

[SHADOWII]

If you are....

seriously considering 600+hp, I would recommend the girdle if you want some longevity w/the 109 block. The steel crank wouldn't hurt either. Remember the block is only rated to 525/550 hp and there is no guarantee it will last.

 

[turbotony1]

Thanks guys.

Would there be much need to run billet main caps with a girdle? Or is the girdle itself sufficient for my build?

 

[gnloyalty877]

Just be sure to get the machine work done by someone who knows these engines. For me personally i'm having a motor done with a steel crank and three caps. If you have to money i would get a good crank to go with either caps or a girdle.

 

[slimtastic]

well if you plan on getting power at 6000+ rpm youll need a good set of heads. most guys wont push 6500 rpm for good power.....hell i dont even push over 5500 rpm and have managed 400 hp on only pump gas/dead stock irons

if 6000+ rpm is important to you than get a girdle on stock caps/two billets... but make sure your investing the cash for aftermarket rods and crank.

make sure you get a good machinist, not just any old dude with a machine shop

 

[Just a Six??]

Just my Opinion but for 100 HP per cylinder (I have one being done right now & did 4 others) 2 centre main caps, 5 thous-10 thous over JE or similar pistons, standard-standard or 10-10 turbo crank (cryrotreating helps) roller setup with good heads, double roller chain etc, & a GOOD Tune without NO Knock & your farily safe. I have never done worse than blew out a headgasket or a frost plug. Again JMO.
They all ran from mid 10's (sold it) to an easy safe 11.50 all day long like I do. Without a cage these days 11.50 or faster & your day is over anyways.
if your adding a cage for full race then the sky is the limit with these engines & cars.

 

[turbotony1]

I think a good crank and center main caps is what I will be doing. I know TA and Cotton's are selling good steel standard stroke cranks for $700 - $800. Have any of you had experience with these??

The machine work will be done by Built Right. They are located outside Chicago, IL. They do have experience with these motors but not as much as a place like DLS. I'm in the process of finding all the good engine builder info I can find on the web and from past GS X-tra articles. I want to inform them on what makes these little Buick motors different from the rest.

Feel free to chime in with anything I should be concerned about.

And Again, THANKS!

 

[87WE4BOOSTED]

If I were you I would contact a vendor from this board and tell him what goals you have and how much cash you have. My build cost just north of 10k and I don't have a girdle "They" say if you do a crank you are good with just billet caps. (this is what I did) If you do a girdle you don't need billet caps. I've seen people do both. Added security I guess.

I told my builder I wanted to go 10.50's and he told me:
.Good set of ported Irons
.Ditch the stock crank. It will work but won't last if I ever wanted to go faster than 10.50.
.Forged Rods. By the time you re-condition the stock ones you will be at a new set of good ones.
.Forged Pistons.
.The stroker kit was for cool points. I keep hearing we won't see the difference in a stree/strip car. It did not cost that much more once you go forged.

I was going down the road of trying to go fast on stock parts but I had to be honest with myself. The stock parts will work but I keep hearing they won't last. Especially when you want to go faster. I was told I was good into the high nines now. Will I go that fast?

You can go to the Weber website and play around with the shopping cart.:biggrin: Tha't what I did until I pulled the trigger.

 

[GNDriven]

600Hp and cost affective in the same sentence huh? Nice way of saying it, because you know it ain't cheap, but I am assuming you would rather not spend money on a part if it does not yield a high enough benefit.

I think the general consensus is that the stock crank flexes badly at horsepower levels greater than 500. This is what causes caps to break.

Consider these thoughts,
1. If the machine shop is to determine a line bore is needed, then the center two billet caps will cost you the amount of the part say appox 160 plus the builder has to fit them. Sometimes fitment can take a while so add appox $70 bucks. So $230 for the caps.
If stock caps are used and no line bore is needed you want have to spend appox $200 for the line bore/hone. Total not spent = $430

Con: If you have cap walk the billet caps can beat the crank register to a pulp.


The RJC girdle is like 400 + 200 to install so $600 for that.

SO I would go for a nice forged crank, rod piston combo and then girdle it. I think the stronger crankshaft is the key.

Having said that no parts made will withstand a bad build done by someone whos does not know buick engines, and/or a bad tune.