1911vs Glock vs S&W

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Glock 19 here. I love the 1911 style guns, but in the city I never leave home without my gun and a Glock is just much easier to carry for me. Fast, compact and lightweight not to mention reliable. I want to get the new GLOCK 42 .380 that just came out for my boot it's a sweet little piece.

Huge Glock fan here but why would you want dam near a single stack 19 that shoots .380? Get a smaller .380 that is actually concealable. And your boot? You carry guns in your boots? lol. That's for the movies. Keep it in your waist line. Better that way. The 42's too big for a boot anyways.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

What you prefer is the most important not what the fellas at the range like....I really never understood the Glock hype it is the Honda Civic of guns, sure it works and is easy to take apart but so are a good number of other weapons.
The 1911 design has survived 102 years now it is not going anywhere parts are just as easy to locate. They are really very different guns. My Colt Government is my go to gun for the bumps in the night, no need for rails, lasers, lights or gizmos that telegraph your location. And I'm pretty confident I can stop whoever from 15 ft away in the dark with it. The stopping power (45 ACP 230 gr HP) is second to none.
For my "plastic" guns I prefer the H&k P30 9mm and it is ergonomically perfect has adjustable grip sides and back straps to tailor to almost any sized hand. It is a superior work of craftsmanship and development in every way, it operates flawlessly and comes in a good variety of configurations. Sure it costs more but it isn't a Honda, its a Mercedes.

What I mean by take apart is not separating the weapon into its main subgroups, but stripping it all the way down to every individual part for a good cleaning. 99% of other handguns cannot be taken that far down by your average owner. Wayyyyyyy too hard. And yes it's necessary every so often because of all the crap that gets lodged down in there. (that is, if you shoot more than a box of ammo a month...)
And just because a design has survived over a hundred years doesn't mean it's a flawless design And rails and lasers aren't "gizmos", nor do they highlight your location if you use them right. You're not supposed to turn it on when you hear a bump in the night and then go searchin' about the house with this silly spotlight on. You're supposed to have your non firing finger on it so that when you acquire your target you light it up the second before you fire, to ensure it's not someone you're not supposed to be shooting. We used them in Iraq with much success so it's also "a proven design" If it would get us killed we wouldn't have used them.
And the whole stopping power is unmatched is a long purported farce. Hasn't been valid since the 70's. The 230 grainers are no more "powerful" than any decent plus p 9mm around, and definitely not more powerful than any .40. When all is said & done they all penetrate pretty much right at the same depth, and impart just about the same energy. All standard calibers penetrate at pretty much the 13" depth, and have around high 300 foot pounds of energy. Some lighter weight 40's and +p+ 9's can get into the 500 foot pound of energy category though. But for standard issue rounds they're all pretty much the same crap.
And those Mercedes's cost twice as much to maintain too Any part with "HK" stamped on it will be double what everyone else's cost. Even when it's the same exact crap lol.

 

[87GNSteve]

So if you are an average owner buy the average level gun like a Glock.
And as for in home tactics that is your preference to use gizmos. Searching around the house? Not wise. The best situation is not to go searching and stay in place and wait for the intruder to come to you, mean while your loved one is on the phone with the security company because your alarm is going off. Many intruders travel in teams so it can and will most definitely telegraph your location, why then fiddle with all that, when you can be in place at the end of a hallway or inside a bedroom trained on the door? All that gizmo stuff is for team driven home offense, not home defense.
Stopping power isn't only penetration. Expansion is where it matters. The .45 ACP 230 gr HP will expand to a much greater diameter. And you know this....
Where and what are these same exact parts that will fit the H&K? (Not that they need any spares...)

 

[TurboDetroit]

Huge Glock fan here but why would you want dam near a single stack 19 that shoots .380? Get a smaller .380 that is actually concealable. And your boot? You carry guns in your boots? lol. That's for the movies. Keep it in your waist line. Better that way. The 42's too big for a boot anyways.

I ALWAYS carry my Glock 19 in my waistband, but it never hurts to have a backup. The 42 is sold out everywhere I've looked here. I've held it once and it's pretty concealable to me...

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

So if you are an average owner buy the average level gun like a Glock.
And as for in home tactics that is your preference to use gizmos. Searching around the house? Not wise. The best situation is not to go searching and stay in place and wait for the intruder to come to you, mean while your loved one is on the phone with the security company because your alarm is going off. Many intruders travel in teams so it can and will most definitely telegraph your location, why then fiddle with all that, when you can be in place at the end of a hallway or inside a bedroom trained on the door? All that gizmo stuff is for team driven home offense, not home defense.
Stopping power isn't only penetration. Expansion is where it matters. The .45 ACP 230 gr HP will expand to a much greater diameter. And you know this....
Where and what are these same exact parts that will fit the H&K? (Not that they need any spares...)

You are right by staying in place and utilizing the fatal funnel, but I'm just not comfortable with intruders rootin' around in my house while I stand by and hope the cops show up that night. There's no way I'm staying in my bedroom while they steal/ransack my house and then leave, and now I'm left to clean up the mess. Screw that. So now that I've left them alone, they're free to come back when I'm not home too? No way in hell is that going to happen. Especially since my Buick's in the garage. I can see it now, "You got ripped off? Where were you?" "Hiding in my room." "You mean they got away with everything in your house, and you were HOME????" "Yep." How would you feel?
Not going to happen. I do agree with waiting in one room and letting them come to you; if you're untrained in these types of scenarios. I am not. And no, no tac light used properly will telegraph your position. Tell me how the tac light scenario somehow changed with the number of intruders? I'm still not going to walk around the dark house with it on whether there's 1 or 5 intruders. You light them up right before you pull the trigger. PID or positive id is necessary before you shoot at someone/thing. In any scenario. And sure the .45 expands more; but not that much more. Not enough to make any difference. Trust me.
And when I said replacement parts I didn't mean to mention about commonality between platforms, I mean the same part, but for different platforms, as in a barrel for a Glock vs. a barrel for an HK, or a Glock trigger vs. an HK trigger. Though don't bother ordering one, as you won't be able to replace it by yourself anyhow. There's even more fees now because of a gunsmith. But you said you won't need any spares? Really? In an automotive forum no less? Being a shadetree mechanic (because all buick owners have to be) doesn't show you that EVERYthing fails? Sure some last a little longer than others but everything wears, and everything fails. ALL mechanical objects need maintenance. The only battle we get to choose is how easy that maintenance will be. Mine? Mindless. A "trigger bar w/ trigger" for my Glock? 13 dollars and a minute's worth of replacement time by ANY glock owner. Your trigger? Which BLOWS by the way, and EVERYONE knows it, probably around 35 dollars or more, if you can actually find one, and good luck finding a smith to put it in, and when you do, have fun with that wait time. Hope you have another pistol to use when your HK's in a gunsmith's shop for three or more months. And the P30? 800 bucks? I could buy two new Glocks for that price. Or another glock and 2000 rounds of ammo for it too. No contest lol. And sorry, actually possessing the disposable income to be able to make those purchases still doesn't make it smart, or right. The amount of money one has in their bank account is absolutely and totally irrelevant to purchase decision logic. Money doesn't justify it. It wouldn't matter if you were Bill Gates, it's still devoid of genuine logic.
If you can get two similar objects that offer the same exact form fit and function, for half the price, and half the life time sustainment costs, why would you choose the option that is every bit twice the money? It's no more accurate, definitely not more reliable, holds no more rounds, or offers no more knock down power, what's the point? It's not jewelry where you can wear it around and show off the symbol on the gun for cool points lol. Just my opinion I guess.

 

[87GNSteve]

I don't know how your house is laid out but, at the entry points what are they going to steal the couch? The 9 yr old flat screen? Oh wait my precious cuckoo clock? The good stuff is where I am. And if you are in my house and the alarm is blaring I do NOT need to positive ID anyone.... besides I have night lighting installed. You do not have an alarm system? Then you are NOT serious about home defense. Who protects it when you are not there? What about fire protection when you are not there?
.45 expands to .88, 9mm expands to .70 and even with ball ammo the 45 has more frontage area....So it is enough to make a difference.
You said same EXACT parts...thought you knew something I didnt...So under your premise of thinking a Hi Point gun owner can mock you for paying more for the Glock and its replacement parts?
Which holds it value more?
H&K recalls?
How many Glock recalls?
H&K does more testing of their designs than ANY other gun manufacturer. This is because H&K does not produce firearms with civilians in mind.
Since H&Ks Primary interest is production for Military and LE contracts they do in house testing. Any flaws in design or manufacturing defect will be found in harsh military testing and therefore HK will not be awarded the contract they are competing for.
Glock Gen4 problems..... Never would've happened with H&K. Glock only makes sure they are safe for use but uses the public as their testing team; as evidenced by a couple years ago with the major new recoil spring issues and extractor issues.
Like I said I don't understand the Glock hype...never will.... sure its a good gun just like the Civic is a good car, but some want more than average. I am not wealthy by any stretch but I am a smart consumer who prefers the best when it comes to certain things.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

It doesn't matter what they may or may not steal lol. It's the fact that some idiot is in my shit tearin' it up, and I can't have that. And an alarm system? That does nothing. I'll bust your shit, take an arm full of whatever I want and leave before anyone will do anything to me. It happens alll day long. It'll stop only an amatuer thief and nothing more. Once that thing goes off, I know I have about 10 minutes left. It's just a timer for a thief lol. As far as a fire alarm/alert? It's a great idea and I'm already doing the research on one anyhow

And .18" expansion difference means nothing lol. I've seen people go down getting hit with both. As for the HI Point comparison lol, you missed the part where I said same exact form fit and function. True, they both do the same job at the first trigger pull but how long can a HiPoint continue to function? Not long. Not a replacement for a quality piece. My argument only applies to where quality thresholds are starting to be met. Once you pass a certain reliability threshold, then anything after that predetermined minimum is waste. Unless you shoot over 20,000 rounds a year, a performance factor that has to be online with that sort of use is worthless to someone who will never utilize a machine in that fashion. It's like buying a 150,000 dollar Ferrari and never breaking 55 mph with it. A complete and total waste of money, chalked up to the popular "cuz I can" camp, when those people are backed into the old conversation corner. It's their only escape from when their flawed logic gets the spotlight. Theres no way you can say that a glock/hk comparison is equal to a hi point/other decent brand name here comparison. That's flawed logic. The hi point won't do everything a glock/hk/walther/ruger/s&w etc etc will. But, a walther will do everything a smith will, and a ruger will do everything a walther will do, and a glock will certainly do everything a walther will do, and so on, and so forth. Keep it apples to apples.

And as far as HK gearing their guns torwards military/police contracts, so does glock. Glocks original purpose was for a military contract. And they're still the most issued gun in the world, finally eclipsing the CZ75 in sales and issue. When I was in the Glock armorer's course, I would listen to the officers talking about how many problems they had with their other sidearms, and how their deparment was switching over. Most recently the M&P in .357 sig. Constant problems and a nightmare for their armorers. Too many springs, too many levers, too hard to fix, and the replacement parts were just too expensive. Which is why they booted them in favor of Glocks.
And there's no way you can say that HK's are without their flaws. They've had screw ups too. Especially in their VP70's and squeeze cockers. Why do you think soo many SWAT teams dumped them? And there is nothing wrong with wanting the best. I can certainly appreciate that, as I try to buy the best around in most everything I use. Hell I even have the best pens. But that's because they're used in that fashion. If it's something that will just sit around and do nothing, then it doesn't matter. Buying the best weights is just like that. A piece of metal is just a piece of metal. No use paying 50 bucks a plate because it says DP on it when the same stamped or cast chinese crap costs 15. Does the same thing. The moral? Spending more money doesn't necessarily mean you're getting a better deal.

 

[87GNSteve]

You're funny. Glock guys.....
Going on a blind search alone is dangerous. But you have your pride, as the Bible says "Pride cometh before destruction." Pro 16:18. Most likely an intruder will know you are home or not. All they have to do is wait at the side of the room entrance/ doorway and make a bunch of noise soon as you creep past.... gotcha. Then you are down in a puddle of your own poop and they got your gun. So I will "cower" in my spot and neutralize whoever crosses my sights.
You still didn't mention how you protect your stuff when you are not home? I guess they will be at my house rushing around for 10 minutes and stay at yours until you come home and then-- Gotcha, you are down in a puddle of your own poop and they got your gun.
You are missing my point comparing a Glock to an H&K is like comparing a HiPoint to a Glock.
The fact that LE prefers what ever brand....Well LE agencies have a budget they don't necessarily buy the best, they need to compromise with what they can afford.
Reliabilty? the VP70 last made 25 years ago? Really? What about the Gen 4s trash...and that was 2 yrs ago quality going down? Is that supposed to happen as a company ages?
Like I said Glock is way over hyped....I love messing with Glock bots most guys aren't nearly as smart as you, so when they say "Glock, Glock, Glock" I say "Why is it the best?" and they get the blank stare on their faces...
It's fine I don't think I will convince you and you will not convince me. To the other readers though personal and family safety is important. We are not in Iraq going house to house. Intruders are often career criminals and armed; use your head, I have my methods and think they are better for the greater portion of the population....Have a two or three or even four tiered system of defense. (Weapon, alarm, dog, neighbors.)

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I was never trying to convince you, just showing you another side that's all.
I know about blind corners lol. I'm not that easy to get. I'm no spring chicken to room clearing lol. And I'm still alive, so I must know a little somethin' And I never said that staying in your room while your shit's getting ganked is cowering. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that I have a different approach. I can't let someone go through my house like it's a shopping spree. It's not in me. Wish it was.

I understand LE agencies have budgets, and your comment about them having to stay within one implies that Glocks are lower tiered guns and that is ok. You are actually correct. But that isn't a point in your favor because they were already in a high end gun to begin with. The fact that they dumped them for the more affordable Glock is testament to my camp These are departments that had "higher end" guns, and were experiencing too many dramas and didn't want to deal with it anymore. Ever take apart a 226? Good. Get it back together? lol. And if you did, how long did it take you? Time is money too. I've had all the "high end" guns in my time, (still have a walther) and while they were nice, I actually shoot too much to warrant using them anymore.
I shot a lot, and because of this I can't get by with a typical field strip and quick wipe down once every other week. My guns get reeeal dirty cuz the shoot the shit out of them, and so because of this they need a total break down and cleaning with a good solvent. Every week. Some days I'll experiment with lead bullets. Ever shoot 400 lead rounds in one day with your HK? Tell me how you cleaned it. I hope you didn't do what we were forced to do in the Army and turn it upside down, soak it with a carb cleaner blast, then air it out with the air compressor lol. I'm not sure I'd want any type of solvent like that on my 1000 dollar gun. We were forced to do that because there was no other way to really get these guns clean after spending the whole day at the range. And it was hell on the guns too.
And, explain to me the expression on your face when your 60 dollar show blue magazine hits the rocks at competition. THAT'S going to be fun replacing those mags every few months... Mine are 22 shipped.

As for the multi tier system? I have neighbors lol. Don't have a dog any more sadly and the alarm is worthless. In my old neighborhood they went off soo often that noone even looked any more. Too much money a month for something that doesn't actually prevent break ins. They only let you know your shit's gone. When I'm gone? My house is pretty secure. I know it's not impenetrable but it's pretty decent. Solid windowless doors, good deadbolts, bump proof cylinders, boxed striker plates with 4" deck screws in all my hinges and striker plates, and all my glass has a 6 mil blast proof security coating. The same coatings that have to be on gov't buildings. Which is how I found out about coatings in the first place. I have LED lighting around the entire perimeter as well. I know it's not entry proof, but it'll take a lot longer to get in, which is what security buys-time. A whole lot of noise will be made trying to get into my house. Which is how I designed it.


Edit: I'm not a typical glockbot. I'm actually loyal to no company on this planet. I'm a whore; that is I'm always lookin' for the bigger, better deal. I was a Sig guy for a long time-until I started competing. I sold it for a Glock and hadn't look back since. I've had, and still have alll sorts of other guns. The only reason Glock is at the top of my list is because it consistently outperforms all my other guns in my own personal trials. And I don't take it easy on my guns either. I try them in all sorts of situations, rounds, drills, etc. etc. Even in maintenance my Glock beats them. When we're done shooting for the day and we return home to do weapons maintenance, I can strip my shit all the way down with one of my wooden q-tips, clean the weapon from top to bottom and reassemble and functions check it long before everyone else is done with their shit, and their cleaning was only a spot clean-mine was a total cleanse from top to bottom. That's why Glocks are at the top of my list. I love them, but for real reasons. I don't drink their cool-aid. If something comes out tomorrow that's better, I'm sellin' all the Glocks and getting that gun instead lol.

 

[87GNSteve]

What is the warranty on a Glock compared to the H&K?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Not sure as noone but the dummies that shoot lead in a stock barrel or reload their own rounds know. If something is found to be their fault, they'll make it right. No worries.

 

[87GNSteve]

I knew the H&K is Lifetime (for original purchaser) I looked up Glock 1 yr.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Glock will honor warranties way past a year typically

 

[Bakn2Gns]

I've owned many 1911s . I shoot and carry a 10mm . I own a Delta Elite Colt 10mm, STI perfect 10. And the OG Bren 10. All 3 are HIGH dollar fickle guns. I no longer shoot the Delta or Bren. The STI I ONLY shoot down loaded ammo. The 1911 frame WILL crack with REAL 10mm loads.
Now to my Glocks. I own and carry both my G29sf and my G20. Both guns run and run and run. I regularly shoot Buffalo Bore 180gr 1350 FPS/ 782 ft.lbs.. My point is a 10mm is a cannon. I've run 2000 plus rounds through my G20 and half as much through my G29sf with ZERO problems. With the G20 I'll put all 16 rounds in center mass at 80-100 yards. I love all guns, but when it comes to protecting my children and myself. I trust Glock. JMHO.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Yep. My IDPA buddy is a gigantic 20/29 fan, and his 29 is pretty much all he shoots at IDPA. He reloads his own though, and doesn't skimp out on the powder either (like sooo many guys do at idpa) When he shoots, everyone stops and listen, cuz noone can hear each other talk over his gun lol, and when his bullets hit the steel targets, they go down fast lol. I mean fast. Out of allll his experimenting, he's only broke one locking block. But that was from him trying to see how hard he could push it, just for experiments sake. He's since replaced that locking block and toned down his loads to about where buffalo bore's are lol. (i carry their +p+ 147's in my G26 for winter carry) Pretty much all our entire team shoots glock at IDPA and we run these things into the dirt. Noone babies them (cuz we all get them at the 398 dollar prices) either. We run 'em till they break and throw 'em in the trash and buy some more. Since switching from Sig to Glock in IDPA, I've seen not one guy break his shit. Not a one. The only malfunction I've ever seen was some yahoo screwin around with his baseplates as an experiment, and his shit dropped out and yard saled all his rounds all over the ground lol. Other than that, no failures of any kind. I've over 11,000 rounds so far between my gen 4 26, gen 4 17, and gen 3 19. No hiccups whatsoever.

 

[machinegun]

The weapon you choose is completely your choice. You have to be comfortable with its use operation and feel. Remember that what ever the range guys are saying, is not what your life depends on.

I have a glock that has been with me for over 18 years. It has been the rock while others have come and gone. It is accurate, reliable and I would put it up against just about anything in a combat / protection scenario. It has well over 15K rounds through it and was re barreled about 9 years ago, not that it needed it but it was worn some so felt this with a little tuning was just good sense to get it back to its original glory.

I have had some very well built 1911 platforms that functioned great and were really nice to shoot at the range and loved them but would not use one for ccw.

As far as protection goes I use the multilayer solutions. I use the house, the rooms, the hallways, the dogs and the firearms to all provide a layered protection. In the field the car, the area, the clothes, the dogs and firearms. I dont go searching the house, that is the dogs job to search and locate, mine is to drop them if they get past.