1985 GN wont fire, please help!

[Spoolin-GN]

Well I am new to the thread, I just picked up my first GN yesterday.Not the cleanest car but well worth the money I spent in my opinion. I got the car in a non running condition. The owner said the fuel pump went out and its been sitting for the past couple of years. So with that being said that is where I started trouble shooting. But after doing some work on it today I can hear the pump prime and I hear the fuel relay click. But dont have any fuel pressure in the fuel rails when cranking. I was thinking maybe a plugged filter so I sprayed some stuff down the throttle body to see if it would just start for a second but I still got nothing. Just turns over, and when I had the plug wires off I could see them sparking to the coil pack so Im pretty sure it has spark. I'm going to change the plugs and see if that helps any. I just want to get the car to run! Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!!

-Jordan

 

[TurboBuRick]

Welcome to tb.com!

Sounds like no spark if no response to starting fluid. Check fuses.

RL

 

[Spoolin-GN]

Is there a picture to show which fuse is which, the words on my fuse box are hardly visible. I did check all of em though and they appear to all be good. I sprayed some more starting fluid down the throttle body and it fired for about a second and shut off and havent had any luck since then. Just keeps turning. The car is bone stock by the way with 128k on the clock.

-Jordan

 

[TurboBuRick]

This should help you out. http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/8485_trouble_shooting.htm

RL

 

[Turbotre]

Previous owner said it needs fuel pump,no fuel pressure at the rails.Hmmmmm

 

[Spoolin-GN]

Yeah the previous owner said it lost power to the pump a few years ago and they parked it. They also said they replaced the pump and said it didnt change anything. But whos to say how much they know or knew what they were doing ya know? I can hear the pump prime so clearly its getting power to the pump, how many volts im not sure but it has power, so that disregards what they had told me. So im just going from scratch.

 

[Turbotre]

If you hear the pump run,but still no pressure at the rails,it has to be in between the pump and the rails.
The small hose in the tank may not be hooked up correctly.

 

[Spoolin-GN]

I havent pulled the tank yet but it will be my next thing to do. I did however change the plugs and they were pretty fouled, with the new plugs I was able to get it started using starting fluid down the throttle body. It didnt sound good while it was started by any means, kinda sounds like it has rod knock or no oil pressure. Now I am no genious to these so bare with me please but I think i read somewhere that if there is no oil pressure it will kill the fuel pump. Or do I have that wrong? Like I said it kinda sounded like it didnt have oil pressure when it was temporarly started but then again this thing hasnt ran in years, so whos to know what its going to sound like. Any input would be much appreciated, thanks

-Jordan

 

[TurboBuRick]

The oil sender is not why it's not starting. The fuel pump primary signal comes from the ecm. You confirmed that you hear the pump running so sounds like it's working. You now need a gauge to confirm fuel pressure at the rail.

On something that has sat that long it's possible oil pump lost prime. Should remove the cam sensor and prime the system with a drill and a prime tool. In some cases the oil pump gears need to be removed and packed with petroleum jelly or assembly lube to develop suction to pull the oil.

RL

 

[GNONYX]

DO NOT try to start the engine again if you haven't already cause some damage to the bearings.
As TurboBuRick say you need to prime the pump first; and you will also need an oil pressure gauge to see if you have any oil pressure.

 

[turbotroy]

Hey, I put a new fp in mine and then it sat 2 years. I ran all fuel out of it so wouldn't have jelly in lines. Went to start it, could hear fp but no pressure to rail. Dropped tank and little hose on fp had disintegrated. Even after priming oil pump, when it started it sounded horrible valve train noise. I used an old trick and drained some oil out and replaced it with atf.15 minutes later, purring like a cat. When at full temperature, changed oil. Hope this helps

 

[GNONYX]

Hey, I put a new fp in mine and then it sat 2 years. I ran all fuel out of it so wouldn't have jelly in lines. Went to start it, could hear fp but no pressure to rail. Dropped tank and little hose on fp had disintegrated. Even after priming oil pump, when it started it sounded horrible valve train noise. I used an old trick and drained some oil out and replaced it with atf.15 minutes later, purring like a cat. When at full temperature, changed oil. Hope this helps

Maybe this worked for you, but his case is different, He hears the Fp, but no gas at the fuel rail which I hope is has a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail.
Before you take down the fuel tank, remove the fuel filter and see if the filter is clogged. Attach a hose at the fuel filter tank end and into a container, do not start the engine, but turn the key on and see if fuel dispense into container. No fuel then drop the fuel tank down, if you do have fuel replace fuel filter, and now that you replaced the fuel filter see if you got fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge that is attached on the rail.

He needs to first primp the oil pump before he tried to start the engine.
You claimed your valve train sounded horrible after you prime the engine, he didn't get that far since he never prime the oil pump.
Although I heard of putting ATF into oil system many years ago, running it for a while did replace with fresh motor oil as this was to flush out some residues.

 

[dennisL]

It sure sounds like the tank needs to be dropped. With the tank down you can examine the hoses at the tank and test the pump, plus examine the fuel sock on the bottom of the pickup. The socks have a tendency to collapse.

 

[GNONYX]

It sure sounds like the tank needs to be dropped. With the tank down you can examine the hoses at the tank and test the pump, plus examine the fuel sock on the bottom of the pickup. The socks have a tendency to collapse.

Why the extra work of dropping the tank when all he has to do is what I mention before:

Before you take down the fuel tank, remove the fuel filter and see if the filter is clogged. Attach a hose at the fuel filter tank end and into a container, do not start the engine, but turn the key on and see if fuel dispense into container. No fuel then drop the fuel tank down, if you do have fuel, replace fuel filter, and now see if you got fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge that is attached on the rail.
My professional opinion as an electrician, machinery troubleshooter, and programmer, is I don't like to jump into things because it's right there.
sometimes if you know from experience, then you can replace parts and the problem is fixed, but guessing and shooting from the hip is time consuming, and sometime unnecessary work.

 

[Spoolin-GN]

Thank you for the support, I have been busy with work but with in the next few days here I will be checking the filter and seeing if any is geting through before I decide to drop the tank. I am still in need of priming the oil pump aswell. Hopefully this is the problem. Then again last time I bought a car that just needed a "fuel pump" it was really blown. Oh well, I am pretty content with the deal I got on the car so worse case scenario it will get a full rebuild. But thanks again, I will do what you guys are saying and get back to you if it was the problem or not. Thanks again!

 

[49-blues]

You can hook a refrigeration hose onto the shader valve on the fuel rail into a 5 gal bucket , put key on- you should get 1 gallon of fuel per minute, if not troubleshoot back to the filter and tank.

 

[Spoolin-GN]

Hey all, back with an update. I did fix the fuel issue, who ever replaced the fuel pump had wired it in wrong so it was sucking fuel. Got that tied away and good to go and have fuel pressure at the lines. Not sure how much though since I'm still waiting on my guage that I ordered on the 21st. But nonetheless I have fuel pressure. And I did get it to start without using starting fluid. But it is running terrible and I really have to feather the throttle to even get it to stay running or else it will die. Seems to be running pretty rich as I see black smoke coming from the exhaust while its running and its fouling my spark plugs. It is also back firing out the intake. Remember the car has been sitting for a few years aswell if that effects anything. What is wrong now? Thanks

 

[TurboBuRick]

Pull the plugs. Do they all look the same?

 

[Spoolin-GN]

Plugs are fouled and I just replaced em before I fixed the fuel issue

 

[turbotroy]

Even tho this is probably not related to your current problem, may want to do a compression check while the plugs are out. Cheers