6.1 mid boost fuel

[HalfDozIN]

In my research I've found a lot about the 6.1 chip, but not this one little detail. Does the chip need to see an actual MAP reading via powerlogger to make the mid-boost fuel corrections, or is it just a calculation based off of rpm, tps voltage, wideband, etc? I already have PL, and I already have an AEM wideband, but as a digital dash car without alky, I don't have a map sensor. Thinking about going to 6.1 because I like the idea of the wb correction, but I don't think I'll bother with adding a map and wiring it if it won't serve any purpose here. If I were serious about going fast it'd be useful for logging boost during a run, though.

 

[Mr.Spool]

In my research I've found a lot about the 6.1 chip, but not this one little detail. Does the chip need to see an actual MAP reading via powerlogger to make the mid-boost fuel corrections, or is it just a calculation based off of rpm, tps voltage, wideband, etc? I already have PL, and I already have an AEM wideband, but as a digital dash car without alky, I don't have a map sensor. Thinking about going to 6.1 because I like the idea of the wb correction, but I don't think I'll bother with adding a map and wiring it if it won't serve any purpose here. If I were serious about going fast it'd be useful for logging boost during a run, though.

Since you havent purchased yet I would highly recommend the axis extreme setup.
The wideband correction your referencing is only a 10% window of correction which is very small.
the map needs to be very close to get a consistent target afr with bigger injectors and can make it challenging to tune the whole rpm and power range depending on the combo and power.
I've tuned both and it's not that a 6.1 cannot work
But....
The axis is tied into the maf sensor and gives the computer control and still allows you to adjust the original map on top of that.
I have found that system to be highly effective and easier on multiple combos when on a stock ecm especially when dealing with different air temperatures and conditions.

 

[HalfDozIN]

Since you havent purchased yet I would highly recommend the axis extreme setup.
The wideband correction your referencing is only a 10% window of correction which is very small.
the map needs to be very close to get a consistent target afr with bigger injectors and can make it challenging to tune the whole rpm and power range depending on the combo and power.
I've tuned both and it's not that a 6.1 cannot work
But....
The axis is tied into the maf sensor and gives the computer control and still allows you to adjust the original map on top of that.
I have found that system to be highly effective and easier on multiple combos when on a stock ecm especially when dealing with different air temperatures and conditions.

I had never done any reading on the AXiS until just now. If I understand correctly, it will correct somewhat based off the maf? As opposed to my regular 5.7 which just looks onto "255" at wot and gives however much fuel, timing has been set.

I was just looking into 6.1 because I already have the translator and run a 5.7, and have the wideband hooked up to powerlogger.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I had never done any reading on the AXiS until just now. If I understand correctly, it will correct somewhat based off the maf? As opposed to my regular 5.7 which just looks onto "255" at wot and gives however much fuel, timing has been set.

I was just looking into 6.1 because I already have the translator and run a 5.7, and have the wideband hooked up to powerlogger.

Its reads/adjust off the maf sensor

 

[HalfDozIN]

Interesting. When I breezed through the instructions pdf earlier it sorta just read like you adjust your tune via the axis instead of using the normal chip method. Not seeing much about it correcting on its own. Definitely sounds like a good setup, though. Looks like I have yet more reading to do...

 

[Mr.Spool]

Interesting. When I breezed through the instructions pdf earlier it sorta just read like you adjust your tune via the axis instead of using the normal chip method. Not seeing much about it correcting on its own. Definitely sounds like a good setup, though. Looks like I have yet more reading to do...

It reads the maf in grams/sec that's how it adjusts.
Like all the maf cars today.

 

[Mr.Spool]

You can adjust further in the axis box

 

[626gn]

Interesting. When I breezed through the instructions pdf earlier it sorta just read like you adjust your tune via the axis instead of using the normal chip method. Not seeing much about it correcting on its own. Definitely sounds like a good setup, though. Looks like I have yet more reading to do...

That’s probably because the Axis Interface is marketed more towards use with the “Axis” chip (which is essentially a TT5.7 chip made to work with the dials in the Axis unit) rather than with the Extender Extreme chip. In the 9+ years I’ve been using the Axis Interface, I used it in all the different ways you could think of: with a standard 5.7 chip (with this setup you lose the ability to use the dials in the box. pointless..), with the Axis chip (with this setup you lose the ability to fine tune things like 1st gear fuel as an example), and lastly with the specially made Extender Extreme chip, like Mr. Spool is talking about. For me, I like the Axis & Extreme chip combination the most. With this setup you have the ability to utilize all the adjustability and features an Extreme chip has to offer with the added ability to further adjust things in the Axis unit and not have to worry about losing your settings if the battery goes dead or gets disconnected. Choosing the right chip to work with the Axis unit depends on what features you feel are useful to you now and in the foreseeable future. If I had the chance to do it all over, I would have just gone straight to the Axis/Extreme combo and saved a few bucks, or like most of us here with the the same sick habit, spend it elsewhere on the car . Hope this helps.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

I stayed with the 5.7 chip as it has a wide window for fueling...20 percent either way. I didn't bother with Axis. I just dialed the high gear fueling in the car to keep the car on it's dial depending on the what the temp/humidity was in the previous round. I could adjust the fueling faster than you could shot gun a beer.

 

[HalfDozIN]

I stayed with the 5.7 chip as it has a wide window for fueling...20 percent either way. I didn't bother with Axis. I just dialed the high gear fueling in the car to keep the car on it's dial depending on the what the temp/humidity was in the previous round. I could adjust the fueling faster than you could shot gun a beer.

Yeah I've ran a 10 psi sweep of boost pressures testing with my 5.7, and can keep it pretty close by adjusting the fuel in the chip. it is nice to have that much room to adjust. I wouldn't mind just having it able to lean itself out a little when the weather changes, I wouldn't want to leave it adding fuel to correct very much. That and the ability to adjust tcc lockup speed as opposed to mailing a 5.7 back every time to change it or turn it on/off were my main two reasons for looking at 6.1. I payed for all 3 disks and I'm going to use all 3 disks lol

 

[Mr.Spool]

I stayed with the 5.7 chip as it has a wide window for fueling...20 percent either way. I didn't bother with Axis. I just dialed the high gear fueling in the car to keep the car on it's dial depending on the what the temp/humidity was in the previous round. I could adjust the fueling faster than you could shot gun a beer.

just want to clarify since you brought it up
On the 5.7 It's not a 20% window all throughout the rpm and load ranges and there is no computer correction through the maf sensor nor a wideband.
Nor is there any adjustments for idle or the ve table.
The map has to be right as that's all the computer is going by.
The axis extreme setup gives timing and fuel access to the map and the maf sensor bridges the fueling gap between the drivability and weather change areas and wot.
the 6.1 allows for the wideband to correct in a 10% window of the map and also gives the ability to tune in different boost levels while the motor is rpming.

 

[Mr.Spool]

On the more advanced computer systems
The rpm range and load factor are all tuned off speed density.
Each cell and rpm range is adjusted by the computer to achieve an afr that was targeted off the map
There are no gaps from idle to wot
This creates the optimal and safe tune and the correction factor (window) can be set above 50%.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Yeah I've ran a 10 psi sweep of boost pressures testing with my 5.7, and can keep it pretty close by adjusting the fuel in the chip. it is nice to have that much room to adjust. I wouldn't mind just having it able to lean itself out a little when the weather changes, I wouldn't want to leave it adding fuel to correct very much. That and the ability to adjust tcc lockup speed as opposed to mailing a 5.7 back every time to change it or turn it on/off were my main two reasons for looking at 6.1. I payed for all 3 disks and I'm going to use all 3 disks lol

As I mentioned, I monitored temp/humidity minute by minute between rounds and adjusted accordingly to keep the car on the dial. Up here in Canada with the big temperature swings, the 20 percent fuel window was a big plus factor for me...and it was a snap to adjust for me. Worked perfect for what I was doing. Grumpy went 9.98 at 138 a long time ago with the 5.7. I'm sure others have gone faster with it. Really depends on what you're requirements are and what you're comfortable with.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

just want to clarify since you brought it up
On the 5.7 It's not a 20% window all throughout the rpm and load ranges and there is no computer correction through the maf sensor nor a wideband.
Nor is there any adjustments for idle or the ve table.
The map has to be right as that's all the computer is going by.
The axis extreme setup gives timing and fuel access to the map and the maf sensor bridges the fueling gap between the drivability and weather change areas and wot.
the 6.1 allows for the wideband to correct in a 10% window of the map and also gives the ability to tune in different boost levels while the motor is rpming.

Parameter 1 - WOT Fuel Adjustment - Overall This feature will add or subtract from the default wide open throttle (WOT) fuel in order to make the fuel mixture richer or leaner at WOT (in all gears). The adjustment range is +/-20%. The default number shown on your scantool is 128 which means no change, the minimum is 102, which is –20%, and the maximum is 154, which is +20%. This adjustment is applied when boost exceeds about 12psi. With smaller injectors, you mayhave already have max fuel, or close to it, so this adjustment might not add anymore fuel in that case. Parameter 2 - WOT Fuel Adjustment - 1st Gear Fuel Same as WOT fuel adjustment except applies to 1st gear only. This is added or subtracted from any adjustment you might have made to the Overall WOT fuel above. Use this setting to adjust your fuel mixture to help launching and 60’ times at the track. If you have no MPH signal (no VSS), don’t use this adjustment

 

[Mr.Spool]

Parameter 1 - WOT Fuel Adjustment - Overall This feature will add or subtract from the default wide open throttle (WOT) fuel in order to make the fuel mixture richer or leaner at WOT (in all gears). The adjustment range is +/-20%. The default number shown on your scantool is 128 which means no change, the minimum is 102, which is –20%, and the maximum is 154, which is +20%. This adjustment is applied when boost exceeds about 12psi. With smaller injectors, you mayhave already have max fuel, or close to it, so this adjustment might not add anymore fuel in that case. Parameter 2 - WOT Fuel Adjustment - 1st Gear Fuel Same as WOT fuel adjustment except applies to 1st gear only. This is added or subtracted from any adjustment you might have made to the Overall WOT fuel above. Use this setting to adjust your fuel mixture to help launching and 60’ times at the track. If you have no MPH signal (no VSS), don’t use this adjustment

I'm pretty experienced in how a 5.7 chip works
Again it doesnt do rpm vs load changes
Throughout the curve with any kind of correction.
you will be adjusting the fueling based on a reaction seen by the tuner after it has happened.
On a 5.7 there is no way to program/target say an 11.0 afr and the computer does its job to get that afr.
The 6.1 does targeting and work off the wideband.
The axis reads the airflow through the rpm range and corrects it off the map.
The 5.7 has no afr targeting or correction capabilities allowing the computer to do its job.
The op wants to step up into those areas from what he is saying.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

I simply said you can add/subtract 20 percent fuel.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I simply said you can add/subtract 20 percent fuel.

I read your post
The op original post was about computer controlled correction
which is why brought up the various ways eric can allow for that on the stock ecm.
It's all a different flavor of ice cream to me.

 

[MNwe4]

Question directly related to the title of this post. With the TT 6.1 chip does it target an AFR if enabled at mid boost and part throttle? I haven't been able to find a direct answer in old posts if it will do this, like when merging on the highway, or if it's only for adjusting fueling when traveling through the mid boost section, but at WOT.

Example: I'd like to get up to speed in traffic quickly and smoothly or going up a large hill, holding part throttle and 5-10 psi without the AFR sinking to 10.2:1.

Tuning the WOT stuff makes sense/works great and idle/cruise is awesome as well. The stuff between is not so great though. Like many I have a 3" LT1 maf, basic translator, powerlogger, and TT 6.1 chip.

 

[mblum]

Here is my experience with the 6.1 chip and the Mid Boost Tracking. I was never able to get a smooth fuel curve in this scenario. In the example you gave the car part throttle, merging onto the freeway at say 10-15lbs of boost, my car would always go very rich, to the point where the engine would bog. I played with all the Mid Boost settings, turning the Mid Boost tracking ON and OFF over the course of a few months but was never able to get a good fuel curve when I held the car in this area.

Now when the car went through this Mid Boost area quickly it seemed to work great, zero issues. I've raced with both the 6.1 and Axis chip and I think for all out racing the 6.1 is awesome and give a ton of fine tuning ability for both fuel and spark.

My car is 95% street driven and I have since switched back to the Axis chip. The Axis chip does awesome in this "Mid Boost" area and has perfect AFR when holding part throttle at low boost in the 10-15 psi range (like merging onto a freeway) and has a very nice fuel curve in this area. There is no adjustability in the Axis chip for Mid Boost, it's doing it all for you.

 

[MNwe4]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree under full throttle the 6.1 is great. Cruising is good too. I'm genuinely curious if this setting for mid boost is only under WOT for a car that has slow spool up or if it was intended for part throttle use. Your experience suggests the WOT scenario. Hopefully more people chime in.

I'm not familiar with the Axis, but a while ago I was looking into the Extender Extreme. However, I already had all the stuff I have now. My impression still remains that you can have chips that ride the MAF sensor until they max out at extended values or you can have one that maxes out at 255 g/sec with some gray area until WOT happens. Something that can read 3-4x of a stock MAF and wideband correct at WOT would be awesome. Just wanting to optimize what I have and switch to some other ECM when the time comes.