I am doing an ls conversion so I need to get rid of the longblock from my 86 GN. I really would prefer to sell locally so that whoever buys it knows exactly what they are getting. I had blowby above 16psi and I bought the car w/ the engine already built so I do not have details for exact build specs and who did it. The engine was just removed last week and is still assembled lower intake to pan in my garage. I was told when I bought it that it had .030 forged pistons and I think either a 212 or 218 cam but I can't remember. If anyone is interested let me know so you can come check it out. If you are serious I can take the heads and oil pan off the engine in front of you for inspection. It could just need to be reringed or it might have to go .010 more over. The engine ran fine when parked with good idle and still made 400lbs. of torque with the blowby. I brought it to JBA for dynoing when I noticed the loss of power at high boost for diagnosis so that is how I know. The only issue I had with it was at full throttle under high boost so rods, crank, cam, and heads should be fine. I do not have a specific price in my head for what its worth but if interested make me an offer its just taking up extra space I need right now and could use the money to help w my build. Pics are posted in my turbo v8 conversion thread.
86 GN Longblock
- Thread starter 86GN5.3
- Start date
Just longblock w/ front cover. I will include the lower intake. I am not sure on the camshaft like I said. I bought the car seven years ago at 18 when I didn't have a clue and he told me a long list of mods but all it took to make the sale was a test drive and launching off the transbrake. Not until now have I had the space or time to do something with it so I tore the car down the past couple weeks for full stripping and paint along w/ an ls conversion.
meanchicken
gallo vicioso
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
Cost is the biggest part I guess. Its a lot cheaper to go ls than to keep the v6. I wanted to keep the v6 for 5 years and thats why its been parked in my garage. Economically though it does not make sense for me at this point in my life to spend big bucks on doing the v6 when I can do a decent ls longblock setup for turbo for less than $2000.
its your car so do as you please, but i have to ask?
if it might just be rings, why not just replace them, even if its pistons, i think it would still be cheaper than ls.
i dont know your combo or your goal but if its just rings, the block, crank, rods, pistons, and cam should get you in the 10's. take the $2000 get a set of heads, turbo and you will be in the 10's.
prime example is chickens car, motor probably has 100K miles
heads ported by someone who must have been drunk and blind (drunk was per Lou, blind was per me just hating a little since my car is still not running :biggrin: ) and he just ran 11.14 at 122mph in his daily driver.for $2k does that include: motor, headers, fuel system, down pipe, and turbo?
just something to think about, but like i said it your car and not hating on the ls V8's
Dave
saw your post in the other thread but thought i would share these with you
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/350456-v8-cars-go-somewhere-else.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/350859-v8-cars-go-somewhere-else-continued.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/351206-v8-vs-v6.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/350456-v8-cars-go-somewhere-else.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/350859-v8-cars-go-somewhere-else-continued.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/351206-v8-vs-v6.html
I know a lot of GN purists think its sickening to go w/ the v8 and you can say what you want. I tore it down and what I found wrong with it was a piston with a cracked skirt and a worn lobe on the cam. Everything else looks fine so if anyone is interested in any of the parts let me know. The car ran 11.5's as a daily driver w/ the 6 but I would like 9's with the setup so its cheaper and more reliable to go ls. Stock 5.3 bottom ends w/ stock 6.0 heads $500 longblocks are in the 8's currently.
Like is said your car do as you like
but i think he went 9's with this motor
140K+ mile stock block and i think he paid $550 for it
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/263333-ran-my-car-last-night.html
and im no purist my car is far from stock:biggrin:
but i think he went 9's with this motor
140K+ mile stock block and i think he paid $550 for it
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/263333-ran-my-car-last-night.html
and im no purist my car is far from stock:biggrin:
Gary Wells
White turbo Buick trailer park trash
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2002
I am neither V6 purist nor V8 hater, and I realize that this is none of my business, but I would rather push my V6 turbo Buick around the block than drive it around with a V8 in it. FWIW & IMHO.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Just so you are under no illusions.....
You don't run 9s in any car without spending money on a well built motor, a beefed up trans, abeefed up rear end and some attention paid to the suspension.
The Buick guys that tell you they run 9s all day on a 109 block are full of ****. What they don't tell you about is the forged internals, the steel main caps, the girdle, the hogged out aluminum heads, the big turbo, the aftermarket ECM and so on. In other words, it costs money.
An LS1 block will take a beating but you won't do it on stock parts. At the minimum you will need forged pistons and rods, I'm told the crank is good up to 900 hp. That was on a 6.0 liter truck motor, by the way. To achieve what you want to do you will still be spending money. You have to come up with headers, a turbo, the intercooler piping to make it work, bigger injectors, I don't know how much of a pain in the rear the wiring will be, and there is the issue of trans figment in the car. In other words it costs money too.
If it were me, I would rebuild the v6. It will cost less overall, it will do what you want on the street and strip. If you are looking for a 9 second race car it won't do that. That costs big bucks period. Like $25K. If you want a fast street car that will mop up 95% of the cars on the street and will still run low 11s/high 10s that is possible. You can build the motor to your budget and always add on to it later.
If you need help with it, I am not far away. I would be happy to help.
Good luck.
You don't run 9s in any car without spending money on a well built motor, a beefed up trans, abeefed up rear end and some attention paid to the suspension.
The Buick guys that tell you they run 9s all day on a 109 block are full of ****. What they don't tell you about is the forged internals, the steel main caps, the girdle, the hogged out aluminum heads, the big turbo, the aftermarket ECM and so on. In other words, it costs money.
An LS1 block will take a beating but you won't do it on stock parts. At the minimum you will need forged pistons and rods, I'm told the crank is good up to 900 hp. That was on a 6.0 liter truck motor, by the way. To achieve what you want to do you will still be spending money. You have to come up with headers, a turbo, the intercooler piping to make it work, bigger injectors, I don't know how much of a pain in the rear the wiring will be, and there is the issue of trans figment in the car. In other words it costs money too.
If it were me, I would rebuild the v6. It will cost less overall, it will do what you want on the street and strip. If you are looking for a 9 second race car it won't do that. That costs big bucks period. Like $25K. If you want a fast street car that will mop up 95% of the cars on the street and will still run low 11s/high 10s that is possible. You can build the motor to your budget and always add on to it later.
If you need help with it, I am not far away. I would be happy to help.
Good luck.
Thanks for offering to help and I will let you know if I get stuck with anything. I worked at MKB and Young Cadillac in San Diego as a driveability electrical tech so the newer engines and there wiring are second nature to me. I am going to run the stock truck cast manifolds as headers and can fabricate my hot side and downpipe along w/ intecooler piping so cost should not be crazy on it. I am going to run strictly e85 so the front mount intercooler I had on the car should be alright w/ the Borg Warner s400-75 turbo I plan to run.
My current cost list on my build is:
New 5.3 iron block $99
3.902 Forged LS1 Pistons $385
Scat 4340 H Beams w/ ARP 2000s $520
Stock used good 3.622" crankshaft $200
Stock used 317 6.0 72cc Heads w/ valve covers $125
Good Used 99 Camaro stock camshaft $35
Machine work for larger pistons and block inspection $300
New Borg Warner s400-75 turbo $649
Stock LS1 Intake Manifold and Fuel Rails Free Already Own
80lb hr. Injectors $400
Conversion Flexplate w/ adapter for 200-r4 $200
BRP Engine mount kit $250
99-02 Camaro PCM $150
Conversion Engine Harness $600
New coils w brackets/ $200
LS6 oil pump $100
LS2 timing set + cover $150
LH8 LS Hummer H3 Oil Pan kit $185
6.0 truck Manifolds $150 for both
Engine Gaskets $200
I figure another $1000 - $1500 in parts I have not obtained yet but when its all said and done I should have a pretty decent setup.
good deal on new block for $99
but total is closer to 6K than 2K
so really not much difference in $$$ than a well built V6I had been wanting to do a buildup w/ the TA aluminum block for the longest time and thats why the car was parked for such a long time because I figured about 7000 to do a decent engine and that was not including anything like new turbo or the paint job the car needed. I should be able to get my conversion done for less than the cost of just the aluminum block this way.
$2000 is for someone wanting to go with a used complete 5.3 and no new turbo. If you owned a decent sized turbo already you can buy a set of 6.0 heads for 100 bucks to yield 8.5:1 compression perfect for a mild turbo setup w/ about 500-600 whp if you wanted to just get a blown v6 car running again with decent power.
This is from ls1 tech with what is the minimum to do a complete ls conversion....
With some digging around, you can usually pickup a complete 5.3 for anywhere between $450-$750. The way I usually get them is top to bottom, with truck intake/ rails/ injectors/ coils. They usually do NOT have starters, alternators, power steering, etc. This is just the way I get them. I have bought 18 of them this way.
The next biggest expense is usually the harness, which you have different options. Either harness can be made to work, be it from a truck or a LS-car harness (Camaro, Firebird) The biggest differences are that the trucks use a different injector plug type than the cars and the truck harnesses lay out differently. I try to avoid the truck harnesses as much as possible due to the odd layout, they are harder to make look nice and they are wired a little more complexly than the car ones (more keyed power sources) Here is where you have to decide what direction you are going to go, plan on leaving the less attractive truck intake (still make good power) or switch to the car style intake/ rails/ injectors to make it look more like an actual LS1. A stock harness usually will run around $150-200 dollars and you will then have to spend 3-4 hours cutting it apart/ figuring out the wires that won't be needed for your application and removing them and finding the wires you will need to connect to make your swap run. This is not a very difficult task, but it does require some patience and a good source of info, such as:
LS1 Swap FAQs
This would be the cheaper route to go if you are somewhat confident in wiring, the other route would be to buy an aftermarket or already converted harness. I have previously reconfigured all factory harnesses for my swaps but now we sell our own, all new harnesses for less than a stock harness and the labor required to modify one. These start around $500. These are made with the correct length wires to place the ECM better and layout more pleasing to the eyes. It would take a lot of work to modify every wire on an older harness to make it layout as nicely as one of the custom built from scratch harnesses.
The next item to consider is what transmission you plan on running. The LS engines will work with any older GM trans with some considerations. TH350s/ 700R4s/ TH400s work by using a GM part as a flexplate spacer and bolts to place the flexplate at the proper spacing, and this part provides a place for the converter snout to engage, using the original converter. The thing to consider is the downshift/ TV cables associated need to be addressed. Companies like Bowtie overdrives, etc have pieces to make them work. Obviously the 6-speeds/ 4l60Es designed to be behind the LS-engines work easily with the proper harnesses if your budget allows.
Next would be the fuel system. The easiest way to do this would be to use an inline Walbro pump sold all over the net, usually around $120 and the corvette filter-regulator combo. There are many options here depending on yor vehicle as far as getting the fuel to the pump. You can pull your factory sending unit and find a way to mount the pump to the sender and install in tank, or maybe even an aftermarket vendor makes a sending unit for your application to do just that. Other options including welding a sump to the bottom of the tank and feeding from there. Next would be installing a fuel cell or even an aftermarket tank designed for EFI use in your application. Some even just mount the pump and pull fuel through the factory pickup. This is usually okay for lower horsepower (stock swaps) and certain pumps, as some don't like pulling fuel very much and might not last forever. After the pump, you feed the corvette filter/ regulator which then has an output that you run to the fuel rail and it also has an output for return fuel back to the tank which just needs plumbed into the top of the tank. The truck intake and fuel rails includes a regulator so you can just run a line up to it and a line back from it returning unused fuel to the tank.
The only other variable here is what accessories you need to run on your engine. Of course there are vendors out there like March, Kwik Performance etc that sell complete accessories setups that are nice, but pricey, which doesn't fit into this budget writeup. I usually am doing hotrod style swaps that often only include an alternator. These are fairly simple, I usually use GM CS-style alternators, found in TBI/ TPI style 4.3-5.0-5.7 engines. These are pretty affordable, work well and are easily replaceable in case of failure. Making mounts out of simple metal (3/16s bar stock-3/8ths round stock) doesn't take too much skill. Just mount the alternator out of everythings way in your swap and most times you can even route the belt to use the factory tensioner. I have done many this way and even some with power steering and used the factory tensioner with perfect results. None ever took more than two hours to figure out. For the non creative types the easiest way to do this is to hold a straightedge across the balancer and hold the alternator up to it in a good spot and find a way to tack a bracket in place to hold it temporarily and then build some easy brackets (I love using the round bar) to mount it, it doesnt even need to adjust if you use the factory tensioner. Of course using factory LS1 brackets/ accessories is always a possibility if they fit your application and are available for use. The thing to keep in mind is that the truck/F-body/Corvette all use different accessory spacing in regards to the distance from the pulley to the block, the trucks stick out the furthest, the F-body is in about 5/8 from that and the vette is in a little more. The total difference between all three is around an inch I believe, but it is enough to make obvious bracket issues if trying to mix and match parts.
Well if you are still with me I am going to make a few lists with pricing for a few different situations.
First would be low budget, this would include a 5.3 engine swap, leaving the truck intake and using for this example a TH400 trans that was already in the vehicle.
5.3 Engine $450
Stock truck harness $150
Add on fuse panel for harness $40
ECM $40
Conversion mounts $50
Gm Trans adapter/ bolts $50
New starter $80
GM CS alternator-junkyard $25
walbro fuel pump $120
Maf sensor - used -ebay $40
New O2 sensors $120
radiator hoses $20
Fuel lines/ fittings $100
Computer reflash $150
Exhaust work/ O2 bungs $100
Total $1535
This would be the bare minimum swap into a vehicle.
With some digging around, you can usually pickup a complete 5.3 for anywhere between $450-$750. The way I usually get them is top to bottom, with truck intake/ rails/ injectors/ coils. They usually do NOT have starters, alternators, power steering, etc. This is just the way I get them. I have bought 18 of them this way.
The next biggest expense is usually the harness, which you have different options. Either harness can be made to work, be it from a truck or a LS-car harness (Camaro, Firebird) The biggest differences are that the trucks use a different injector plug type than the cars and the truck harnesses lay out differently. I try to avoid the truck harnesses as much as possible due to the odd layout, they are harder to make look nice and they are wired a little more complexly than the car ones (more keyed power sources) Here is where you have to decide what direction you are going to go, plan on leaving the less attractive truck intake (still make good power) or switch to the car style intake/ rails/ injectors to make it look more like an actual LS1. A stock harness usually will run around $150-200 dollars and you will then have to spend 3-4 hours cutting it apart/ figuring out the wires that won't be needed for your application and removing them and finding the wires you will need to connect to make your swap run. This is not a very difficult task, but it does require some patience and a good source of info, such as:
LS1 Swap FAQs
This would be the cheaper route to go if you are somewhat confident in wiring, the other route would be to buy an aftermarket or already converted harness. I have previously reconfigured all factory harnesses for my swaps but now we sell our own, all new harnesses for less than a stock harness and the labor required to modify one. These start around $500. These are made with the correct length wires to place the ECM better and layout more pleasing to the eyes. It would take a lot of work to modify every wire on an older harness to make it layout as nicely as one of the custom built from scratch harnesses.
The next item to consider is what transmission you plan on running. The LS engines will work with any older GM trans with some considerations. TH350s/ 700R4s/ TH400s work by using a GM part as a flexplate spacer and bolts to place the flexplate at the proper spacing, and this part provides a place for the converter snout to engage, using the original converter. The thing to consider is the downshift/ TV cables associated need to be addressed. Companies like Bowtie overdrives, etc have pieces to make them work. Obviously the 6-speeds/ 4l60Es designed to be behind the LS-engines work easily with the proper harnesses if your budget allows.
Next would be the fuel system. The easiest way to do this would be to use an inline Walbro pump sold all over the net, usually around $120 and the corvette filter-regulator combo. There are many options here depending on yor vehicle as far as getting the fuel to the pump. You can pull your factory sending unit and find a way to mount the pump to the sender and install in tank, or maybe even an aftermarket vendor makes a sending unit for your application to do just that. Other options including welding a sump to the bottom of the tank and feeding from there. Next would be installing a fuel cell or even an aftermarket tank designed for EFI use in your application. Some even just mount the pump and pull fuel through the factory pickup. This is usually okay for lower horsepower (stock swaps) and certain pumps, as some don't like pulling fuel very much and might not last forever. After the pump, you feed the corvette filter/ regulator which then has an output that you run to the fuel rail and it also has an output for return fuel back to the tank which just needs plumbed into the top of the tank. The truck intake and fuel rails includes a regulator so you can just run a line up to it and a line back from it returning unused fuel to the tank.
The only other variable here is what accessories you need to run on your engine. Of course there are vendors out there like March, Kwik Performance etc that sell complete accessories setups that are nice, but pricey, which doesn't fit into this budget writeup. I usually am doing hotrod style swaps that often only include an alternator. These are fairly simple, I usually use GM CS-style alternators, found in TBI/ TPI style 4.3-5.0-5.7 engines. These are pretty affordable, work well and are easily replaceable in case of failure. Making mounts out of simple metal (3/16s bar stock-3/8ths round stock) doesn't take too much skill. Just mount the alternator out of everythings way in your swap and most times you can even route the belt to use the factory tensioner. I have done many this way and even some with power steering and used the factory tensioner with perfect results. None ever took more than two hours to figure out. For the non creative types the easiest way to do this is to hold a straightedge across the balancer and hold the alternator up to it in a good spot and find a way to tack a bracket in place to hold it temporarily and then build some easy brackets (I love using the round bar) to mount it, it doesnt even need to adjust if you use the factory tensioner. Of course using factory LS1 brackets/ accessories is always a possibility if they fit your application and are available for use. The thing to keep in mind is that the truck/F-body/Corvette all use different accessory spacing in regards to the distance from the pulley to the block, the trucks stick out the furthest, the F-body is in about 5/8 from that and the vette is in a little more. The total difference between all three is around an inch I believe, but it is enough to make obvious bracket issues if trying to mix and match parts.
Well if you are still with me I am going to make a few lists with pricing for a few different situations.
First would be low budget, this would include a 5.3 engine swap, leaving the truck intake and using for this example a TH400 trans that was already in the vehicle.
5.3 Engine $450
Stock truck harness $150
Add on fuse panel for harness $40
ECM $40
Conversion mounts $50
Gm Trans adapter/ bolts $50
New starter $80
GM CS alternator-junkyard $25
walbro fuel pump $120
Maf sensor - used -ebay $40
New O2 sensors $120
radiator hoses $20
Fuel lines/ fittings $100
Computer reflash $150
Exhaust work/ O2 bungs $100
Total $1535
This would be the bare minimum swap into a vehicle.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
A couple of questions.
What turbo is on the car now? Did it work before the motor ate itself?
How about the transmission?
What turbo is on the car now? Did it work before the motor ate itself?
How about the transmission?
