Air/Fuel guage?

[turbokid9765]

I recently put an air/fuel guage in but im pretty sure its not reading correctly. All it does is bounce around from lean to stoich to rich. Im not sure why it does this but i cant even come close to getting a proper air/fuel reading. Its a 2 1/16 autometer pro comp so its no cheapo but the instructions said to by a denso heated oxygen sensor for it. We just spliced into the stock O2 sensor. I have a t/a performance 3 inch downpipe with a bung should i buy a denso O2 sensor and put it there for the guage? I'm assuming it needs its own O2 sensor. I called autometer and there heated O2 sensor listed for 166.67 WOW so i checked caspers and it was something like 65. Help me if you can. Thanks, sorry for the drawnout thread.

 

[87geeinn]

You cannot, I repeat, cannot use a narrow band (i.e.-stock) oxygen sensor as a air/fuel gauge. A heated oxygen sensor is simply a oxygen sensor that draws current in order to heat up quicker so that it starts responding/sending data to the ECM, nothing more.

A wideband oxygen sensor is what you need to monitor actual air/fuel ratios. There are many setups available, i.e.-Innovate's LC-1, PLX, etc. These types of oxygen sensors are heated in the sense that they have sensitive elements that are heated and turned on and off several times a second by a controller attached to the sensor.

Also, a wideband oxygen sensor must be mounted away from the turbo and not in the stock oxygen sensor's location. If you have a 3" downpipe with a bung already installed, then that is where the wideband sensor would go. As long as it is at least 12 inches or so aways from the turbo and somewhere between the 9 and 3 o' clock positions.

Do a lot more searches on the subject. Also, look here for just one example of the more common units we use on these cars.

 

[turbokid9765]

Thank you but this is all a little overwhelming. Im wanting to get an alky kit and the powerlogger would i still need this in that case? Im sure I probably would but also can I still use my autometer gauge? What do you recommend as far as chips and programmable software? I believe everything i listed above would get me a good tune and im not lookin for a tsm car or anything just a kick ass street car that will low elevens high tens at the track. Thanks again.

 

[turbokid9765]

I see in your signature the things you have done to your car. Have you taken it to the track yet?

 

[turbokid9765]

I also have a set of 65lb precision injectors but im waiting till i get a bigger turbo and chip etc. to put those in. I guess the bad thing is I dont have anyone nearby that could help me considering im only 18.

 

[87geeinn]

Believe it or not, my car has never been to the track. Ahhh, one day.

Anyway, yes, there is an enormous amount of information when first learning about these cars. It is overwhelming in a way isn't it? Thing is, that feeling NEVER goes away. That's why you hear some of us say from time to time, "Welcome to the dark side." It sounds cheesy, but there's a lot of meaning behind that statement. Take your time and slow down on the buying of go fast parts. You need to learn about what you already have and how they work. I don't think you are ready for alky...yet. You need to get familiar with the car and the tuning process before throwing the added complication of alky into the mix.

There is a general consensus that the chips from Full Throttle (Extender/Commander) and TurboTweak chips are the best out there. You can't go wrong with TurboTweak chips.

For starters, I recommend you that you get a chip from either of the two aforementioned vendors (I'm biased toward TurboTweak though) and make sure the chip is matched to those injectors. That is VERY important. Go ahead and install the injectors if you are able. TurboTweak has a forum that you should join and ask specific chip questions over there. Eric is a one-man show at TurboTweak and is very helpful is getting you set up properly.

Also, I wouldn't touch your turbo. A bigger isn't going to help you at all until you are running 20+ pounds of boost.

Ask around, you may actually have some people close to you. You'd be surprised at some of the locations of TRs.

One last thing: Update your signature so we can help in the future with mods/questions without having to ask redundant questions. Take your time. We'll learn ya. There's some smart fellers on here

 

[turbokid9765]

So 65 lb injectors would be ok to use with a stock turbo? These are the parts im narrowing it down to now alteast for computer stuff. The LC1, powerlogger, and a turbotweak chip. What do you think about all this? I like the powerlogger because i would like to tune with a laptop. Do you think this is a good combination and will it give me a good tune?
Thanks for all your help geeinn.

 

[turbokid9765]

If I went with the powerlogger and chip I dont think I would need the LC1 would I?

 

[aminga]

So you can't exactly tune with a laptop with Powerlogger. It's a passive listener only. However you can use it to set BLM cells that control chip based tuning parameters.

LC1 with powerlogger is another datapoint. It isn't necessary but it is nice.

 

[87geeinn]

You can use any injectors with the stock turbo. Injectors won't give you power. They merely allow for more fuel when making more power (i.e.-running a larger turbo). Don't get caught up in the desire to slap a big turbo on your car just yet. There's a lot you can do before the stock turbo is your limiting factor. For example, getting proper traction with lower control arms, sticky tires, proper boost control can get you miles ahead.

If you decide to use the TurboTweak chip, you should use the 6.0v for fuel tracking. It will make for a much better/stable tune. Be advised that there is a lot involved when going to a wideband/Powerlogger set up. It will take some splicing of wires, proper grounding, etc. to get everything to work properly. All I'm saying, is that it's not for beginners, but not impossible either. I just don't want you adding a bunch of variables too soon before you know what you are doing. However, you can't go wrong with that setup.

 

[turbokid9765]

Well thanks again guys but 87geeinn i noticed in your signature that you have the innovate WB, turbotweak 6.0v, and powerlogger which is what i was talking about doing to my car. How is that working for you?

 

[turbokid9765]

You can use a laptop with the innovate WB correct?

 

[87geeinn]

I love my setup.

You can connect to the Innovate WB to make certain changes in the controller. You wouldn't use it for logging purposes or anything though. When using the LC-1 WB with the Powerlogger, you need to connect the WB's output to the Powerlogger's input. From there, you monitor things on the laptop. The Powerlogger is an interface; any laptop viewing/tuning that you do, you will be viewing what is going into the Powerlogger (i.e.-WB signals, MAP signal, etc.)

If you are going to the Powerlogger, it's not absolutely necessary to have the LC-1, but it is nice as it is "one more piece of the puzzle" that you can log. If you get the LC-1, get the XD-16 gauge with it too. You'll be thankful you did.

Also, you can log boost with the Powerlogger without any additional add-ons, but again, it's not necessary either, just helpful when logging runs.

 

[turbokid9765]

I see I think I have some better understanding then. What do you sugest I do? Right now the only things I've done to my car are a 3" T/A downpipe with dump and autometer pro comp oil pressure, water temp, boost, and air/fuel guages. I have a set of 65 lb. injectors and an accufab adj. fuel regulator with a direct mount fuel pressure gauge on the way. What would be the best add ons for now?

 

[turbokid9765]

Since I already have an air/fuel guage couldnt i hook up the LC-1 to that and not have to get the XD-16 gauge?

 

[turbokid9765]

Im not looking to spend a bunch of money yet i would just like to get my air/fuel gauge working correctly.

 

[87geeinn]

As far as the gauge goes, I'd call Autometer and/or Innovate (if you decide to use the LC-1). I'm sure you can set them up to work together by using one of the analog outputs of the LC-1 as the signal line. It all depends on what kind of input the Autometer gauge "sees." If it uses a 0-5volt reference, then you should be okay. If not, then you'll have get with one of the companies and have them help you on the initial install. NOTE: The wiring on the LC-1 is VERY sensitive to grounding issues, so it will have to be wired up exactly as the instructions say.

Get a Scanmaster, a chip for your injectors, get rid of the hose that runs from the pass. side valve cover and cap the port on the turbo inlet bell. Also, get the fuel pump AND hotwire kit that you were talking about in that other thread. That's a must if the stock fuel pump is still in there. While you are waiting on those parts, do the spring cleaning that can be found here. That should keep you busy for a while.

Again, post ALL of your mods in your signature because I'm just assuming a completely stock setup right now other than what you've stated already.

 

[87GN_70GS]

You're going to need a bigger fuel pump with those injectors. Your fuel pressure will fall too low at WOT with the stock pump (unless you keep the PW super low for a near-stock airflow). I would leave the stock setup and get an alcohol injection system instead.

 

[turbokid9765]

the hose that runs to the valve cover and turbo, does that go to the wastegate solenoid?

 

[87geeinn]

the hose that runs to the valve cover and turbo, does that go to the wastegate solenoid?

In a stock setup, there is a breather on the end of the passenger side valve cover that has a hose running from it to the inlet bell of the turbo. There are two vacuum hoses that comes from the wastegate and the other from the turbo outlet. These two vacuum lines meet at a grey Y-shaped restrictor and from there, one vacuum line goes to the wastegate solenoid that is mounted on top of the passenger valve cover.