alcohol mixture ???

[humberto]

Hey guys please help i was wondering why some of you are useing water with your alcohol?Is it because your alcohol will last longer or is there a difference in performance?It seems like everyone is useing different mixtures.Anyone try useing race fuel instead of alcohol?

 

[turbot2112]

i thought people were saying there was less knock. i would also like to know.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38748&highlight=alchy+race+gas

humberto, here is a thread for the last question.

Seems guys that are running 70% alchy are raising the timing. Some of the DIY systems that are running 80 ish psi, 2 stage, and 4 nozzles, (better atomization) are even getting a 50-50 mix to work.

Very nice times BTW! Mind if I ask how much boost you are running with the GN-1 heads? I've decided to stay with 19 psi max boost based on what I've read. Just wondering what your experiences have been. I had to completely re-tune my alchy after going to the alum. heads. I'll be trying it again tomorrow...

How about timing? Any and all suggestions welcome!

Thanks!

BTW I havn't had much luck running any water in the mix yet. I got high boost, but was drowning the plugs out. Didn't have that problem with the irons.

Also I'm running Autolite 103 plugs in mine. How about you?

Sorry for all the questions, but there are not many members running GN-1's and alchy, so I don't get a chance to pick any brains running this combination.

Thanks again!

 

[humberto]

Hey Tim i have the alcohol kicking in at about 12 psi with the pump at full speed.I can run 20 pounds of boost with 94 octane pump gas and have the chip at setting 5 which is 22 of timeing and the casper gauge sometimes lighting the first green light.With the alcohol off i leave it at about 18 pounds of boost and chip set at 20 degres.I am going to try putting some water in tomorrow and see what happens?Tim i am useing autolite 104 plugs gapped to .035.My fuel pressure at idle is set at 43 psi with line off.What kind of fuel pressure does your car like?

 

[blackbuick87]

humberto your combo is flowing a lot more air than most, so you most likely need a bigger jet than the one the kit came with. It is designed to work well with stock turbos and TA49's, not 61's with high flowing aluminum heads

 

[Turbo__Tim]

humberto, 42.5 Static. I try not to mess with FP, since I figure that is what the chip is designed at. Others will crank it up, and have success, so you can't argue with that!

Also I've had problems running water in my mix, but I havn't gotten the chance to crank the timing up in order to make it work. Others run extreme timing to burn a 50-50 mix but I'm too chicken to do that right now.

BTW I started to tune alchy today but had to stop. After 3 runs to 85 mph I pulled back into the driveway and noticed after a minute the idle became rough, and quit. It seems to be heat related, since it runs fine after a cool down. If I try to start it up right after stalling, it backfires hard like the motor wants to run backwards. I don't want that happening at full boost, so tomorrow I will swap the esc (coil module) and see if I can duplicate the problem.

Blackbuick makes a good point, however I believe it's worthwile to try to run some water.

Let us know how it works for you!

 

[humberto]

Well after kicking the crap out of my car Sat i have come to a conclusion.My car HATES any amount of water with the alcohol? Didnt matter what i did with tuneing i could not get it right.For now i will stick with straight alcohol, it works for me. Maybe i will try bigger jets like Blackbuick said.

 

[Razor]

Whats water

straight here..not on the rocks..just a dabble of klotz mixed in.

hey thats an idea..wonder if I can freeze some alky cubes and drop them into the tank at the track..

brilliant



Julio

 

[turbo buicks]

Julio, i heard your car didnt like any water and neither did Bobs. hmmm. my car seems to love a 70/30 mix. i feel it will bog on a 50/50 mix tho but only one way to fing out. with the alky water mix i went from a bit or transitional KR to 0* KR. guess it all depends on the car. the cube idea is cool just dont put them in your iced tea.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

humberto, that makes 2 of us now with the gn-1 heads that can't run water in the mix. Like I said I had no problems with the irons at all. JMO, higher timing, and smaller jets are what's needed.

You noticed an imediate lack of power throughout the band - right? Prolly got really bad once you hit third gear - right? Well I went 2 stage with mine and that helped, but it still looses power with any water, just not as bad.

Like I said, upping the timing might work, but I havn't tried that yet. As soon as I get my electrical problems figured out I'll give that a try.

 

[Razor]

Cory, you got other demons..

My car can run 19 lbs on water..22 on water/alky mix and 25-28 on straight denatured..

to run 20 lbs..I can piss in the jar

Definetely wont want those ice cubes..

When you start going to the track..run some boost through the car..start squaring away your tuneup and make some MPH..you will see the lite Jedi

Until then..street tuning to 80 mph..aint gonna cut it..and the knock your probably seeing is cuase the car is way too rich.

Julio

 

[turbo buicks]

oh well maybe it is rich knock. its only on 21 lbs now so we'll see how it does with more boost and the alky water mix. the problem was when we (Bob and I) got it all tuned it had a vacuum leak we didnt know about so i think that threw off all the readings. now that i fixed it, it ran richer. according to the O2s (820 range) i could still take out some fuel. well see when i head up to Bobs again after i get a new HD wastegate. piss in the jar, eh??? i got an idea...j/k. that would probably work since pee is made up of a lot of water and its sterile. the smell might get you tho. LOL. go ahead and try it and tell me what you think. track day should be coming soon, ill let you know before i go to see if you will still loan out them slicks for $30/day.

 

[cjp69]

Julio or anyone,

Is it possible to "street tune" the Alky?

I will probably seldom see the track and would like to use the Alky on the street. As such, I rarely see WOT in third, usually 1st and 2nd.

I think I am having the same "rich knock" types of problems in this post.

Anybody help with a good way to tune for boost in the low 20's for the street?

Thanks, Chris

 

[humberto]

Tune on the street? That was the whole point of getting the alcohol kit installed, getting 20 pounds of boost without knock.My car gets used 99 percent of the time on the street.The other 1 percent C-16 is used at the track. Chris im sure it would help if you let us know what your combo is before we can help you tune the alcohol.Also if you do a search there are alot of posts that will help you tune your car or give you a good starting point.

 

[cjp69]

Julio,

When I asked if you could "tune on the street" I was responding to your previous post which said:

"When you start going to the track..run some boost through the car..start squaring away your tuneup and make some MPH..you will see the lite Jedi

Until then..street tuning to 80 mph..aint gonna cut it..and the knock your probably seeing is cuase the car is way too rich. "

So I figured, like you said, that tuning on the street to 80 mph wasn't going to cut it

Unfortunately, that's where most of my driving is, below 80 mph, and that's where I am getting knock. So I was wondering if there was a good why to tune the knock away at 80 mph and less (mostly 1st and 2nd gear) without having to go to the track to do it.

I am running a TE-44, FMIC, Alky, 42#'s, adj. fp, Superpump, bstc, scanmaster, dp, etc.

Thanks, Chris

 

[Razor]

All my tuning is on the street.. i go to the track and have fun..wouldnt be correct to imply other should do as I do

Start with a low timing chip..its more detonation resistant..your typical street 92 chips work wonders.

Next start at a conservative boost level..lets say 19-20 lbs in first/second. Then use a small amount of alcohol..mid position on the SMC kit .set your turnon point somewhere around 10 lbs..go for a drive..now..dont JAB the throttle..roll into it..let the boost come up and let the alky work..if your car is seeing over 820's for O2's..turn down your fuel pressure..not alky..at 20 lbs its hard to hurt your engine with some alcohol.

just me..run straight denatured with some lube..ie WD40, klotz, Marvel mystery oil etc..small amount just to tint the alky.

Let me know how it goes.. whats C16

Once you get to your alcohol limits..the start on other measures..Xylene works well too..trick is to get your car into the upper 700's O2's without bucking and surging. Top of second most cars will see 800 and top of third 780's..I usually tune for high 700's top of second..

Low timing..lots of boost..High timing will make your tuning a nitemare..been there..beat it to death.

 

[cjp69]

Thanks Julio,

Sounds like solid advice, can't wait for the rain for stop so I can go try it!

I have been getting the surging and bucking (almost feels like a miss or bad fuel delivery), and I think my o2's were well into the 800's.

I have some Xylene in the tank now for insurance, and I think my alky was probably sent between 7 and 10, which sounds like it was my problem.

I am a little conservative, and I think that's my problem. I want to turn the boost down and the alky up when I see knock, and I think I am just making matters worse. Soon as I see Knock on the scanmaster I want to pull out, so it is hard to get a good reading.

I also just had the 42's put in (had 36's), and I am trying to get a chip to work right with them. I have thrasher, testa and joe l. street chips for 42.5's and not them seem to want to run right. I am waiting for a new chip from Jim for the 42's. Now it has a chip in it for 40's and that seems to work the best, don't ask me why.

Thanks again, Chris

 

[humberto]

C-16 race fuel

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Chris, It's futile to try to tune the alchy in until the car is running right. You might as well chill out until the chip that works the best gets here.

 

[turbo buicks]

cjp69, im with turbo_tim, get the right chip first then setup the kit. one at a time. i was like you and always wanted to pull out at the first hint of KR on the SM but if you stay in it the KR should go away. my friend was telling me this is called transitional knock. going from a cruise or stop to WOT the ECM has to make quick fueling changes and other crap i guess and i have found if you stay in it the KR will drop to 0* in about 2 frames.