Alky- bandaid for tuning incompetency?
- Thread starter Matt
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Matt,
My opinion is NO. If the car isn't tuned correctly or running bad to begin with, alky will do nothing to solve the problems. In fact, things may wind up worse if you turn the boost up with the addition of alky.
I feel that the main purposes of alky are twofold: Octane "enhancement" and cooling. Alky is not a substitute for race gas. However, it'll make 91,92 octane is lot easier to live with on the street with higher boost.
Get the car running 100% first, then add alky.
Just my .02$
Steve
My opinion is NO. If the car isn't tuned correctly or running bad to begin with, alky will do nothing to solve the problems. In fact, things may wind up worse if you turn the boost up with the addition of alky.
I feel that the main purposes of alky are twofold: Octane "enhancement" and cooling. Alky is not a substitute for race gas. However, it'll make 91,92 octane is lot easier to live with on the street with higher boost.
Get the car running 100% first, then add alky.
Just my .02$
Steve
cheep way to run 93 with 20lbs boost.
Mr URL
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 674
No. Far cry. You hear that from guys who either 1) Haven't tried it 2) Couldn't get it to work 3) Can't see the benefits it has with pump gas.
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html
I gained a good 100hp with pump gas using it. You actually have to be a good tuner to have success with it.
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html
I gained a good 100hp with pump gas using it. You actually have to be a good tuner to have success with it.
I agree... tuning with alky is no "easier" than with race gas. Like Chad says, those that usually knock the use of alky (was that a TR pun?) seem to have a buddy who "ran alky and it sucked" or something like that. I have a friend (ex, actually, but that's a different story!) who tried alky and never got his car to run right with it... didn't phase me, though! I'm still running it and loving it! It may not be a substitute for race gas, but personally I think it's a close second! 
Quick example: GN best on 112 octane: 12.61@111.97; best on alky and 93 octane 12.60@110.87. Different tracks/dates, and about 15-20 degrees WARMER on the alky run day, but I'd say it's close enough for me! Haven't run race gas since.
Quick example: GN best on 112 octane: 12.61@111.97; best on alky and 93 octane 12.60@110.87. Different tracks/dates, and about 15-20 degrees WARMER on the alky run day, but I'd say it's close enough for me! Haven't run race gas since.
Just by way of example, on my friends Pulling tractor we run water injection. Just a lil thing, 436 6 cylinder, non imtercooled, and we run 60 PSI of boost. dropping the clutch and we generate a wheel speed of 70 MPH in less then .25 sec.
In the lil conflict in the mid 40s, if it wasn't for WI there would have been a serious increase in lives lost.
the only thing BAD about WI is when you tune for it and run out.
At a min it's a detonation suppresant.
In the lil conflict in the mid 40s, if it wasn't for WI there would have been a serious increase in lives lost.
the only thing BAD about WI is when you tune for it and run out.
At a min it's a detonation suppresant.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 20,966
Maybe yes, so?
Just call it tuning in a bottle.
Just call it tuning in a bottle.
If you have tuning skills and patience alky can be just as good as your 112 octane race gas at the track. I run 24 psi with a JL 110 race chip on 93 octane pump gas with the use of an smc alky kit. Now for most people 24 psi is plenty of boost. Now if you use c16 you could squeeze another couple pounds out of it with METICULOUS tuning. I'm sorry, but for the $$$ there is no comparison. If you have the money to run C16 all the time on the street and can afford to replace 02's all the time then more power to you. All I know is my GN is my only car and a daily driver and I am in kill mode all the time. There's nothing like the confidence of being in kill mode all day all the time
turbojimmy
Supporting Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 5,560
You hear people ask this over and over again, but it applies here, too:
What are your goals?
I ordered my SMC alky kit because my (current) goal is a high-11/low-12 second *street* car. When I do go to the track, it's on test-n-tune days. I like to know what the car runs, but I'm not really interested in "racing" it. The Friday night street legal drags are fun, and an 11 second car would be close to the top of the heap. I don't want to have to run race fuel all the time because I drive the car a lot - to work and back, to get groceries, or just for the heck of it. Until last weekend, it had the original O2 sensor in it and I still have a cat because I have to have it inspected every 2 years.
Even though my sig indicates a mid-12 second car, the reality was that was accomplished with a 104 octane chip and 108 octane leaded fuel. My car isn't a mid-12 second car. It's really a mid-13 second car in "street" trim (94 octane fuel; modest timing; less than 20 psi boost). There are a plethora of other cars that would (and do) give me a run for my money on the street. My dad and my brother own two of them (LS1 powered F-bodies). That makes me uncomfortable, so I upped the ante a bit. After doing a lot of research, it looked like alky would fit the bill very nicely for my goals. So, I got the PT51, 50# injectors, and the alky kit. I should be able to safely turn up the boost and timing without having to hunt around for race fuel or destroying my O2 sensor and my cat.
I haven't read anything that would lead me to believe that alky is a substitution for common-sense tuning. My impression is that it's only a substitute for the lower-octane race fuels. The same amount of tuning is necessary, maybe more to get the spray right on the alky, whether you're using alky or race fuel.
If going *real* fast becomes a goal, a whole lot of other things would have to happen, and the alky may not make sense at that point.
Just my .02....
Jim
What are your goals?
I ordered my SMC alky kit because my (current) goal is a high-11/low-12 second *street* car. When I do go to the track, it's on test-n-tune days. I like to know what the car runs, but I'm not really interested in "racing" it. The Friday night street legal drags are fun, and an 11 second car would be close to the top of the heap. I don't want to have to run race fuel all the time because I drive the car a lot - to work and back, to get groceries, or just for the heck of it. Until last weekend, it had the original O2 sensor in it and I still have a cat because I have to have it inspected every 2 years.
Even though my sig indicates a mid-12 second car, the reality was that was accomplished with a 104 octane chip and 108 octane leaded fuel. My car isn't a mid-12 second car. It's really a mid-13 second car in "street" trim (94 octane fuel; modest timing; less than 20 psi boost). There are a plethora of other cars that would (and do) give me a run for my money on the street. My dad and my brother own two of them (LS1 powered F-bodies). That makes me uncomfortable
, so I upped the ante a bit. After doing a lot of research, it looked like alky would fit the bill very nicely for my goals. So, I got the PT51, 50# injectors, and the alky kit. I should be able to safely turn up the boost and timing without having to hunt around for race fuel or destroying my O2 sensor and my cat.I haven't read anything that would lead me to believe that alky is a substitution for common-sense tuning. My impression is that it's only a substitute for the lower-octane race fuels. The same amount of tuning is necessary, maybe more to get the spray right on the alky, whether you're using alky or race fuel.
If going *real* fast becomes a goal, a whole lot of other things would have to happen, and the alky may not make sense at that point.
Just my .02....
Jim
Originally posted by turbojimmy
You hear people ask this over and over again, but it applies here, too:
What are your goals?
I ordered my SMC alky kit because my (current) goal is a high-11/low-12 second *street* car. When I do go to the track, it's on test-n-tune days. I like to know what the car runs, but I'm not really interested in "racing" it. The Friday night street legal drags are fun, and an 11 second car would be close to the top of the heap. I don't want to have to run race fuel all the time because I drive the car a lot - to work and back, to get groceries, or just for the heck of it. Until last weekend, it had the original O2 sensor in it and I still have a cat because I have to have it inspected every 2 years.
Even though my sig indicates a mid-12 second car, the reality was that was accomplished with a 104 octane chip and 108 octane leaded fuel. My car isn't a mid-12 second car. It's really a mid-13 second car in "street" trim (94 octane fuel; modest timing; less than 20 psi boost). There are a plethora of other cars that would (and do) give me a run for my money on the street. My dad and my brother own two of them (LS1 powered F-bodies). That makes me uncomfortable
I haven't read anything that would lead me to believe that alky is a substitution for common-sense tuning. My impression is that it's only a substitute for the lower-octane race fuels. The same amount of tuning is necessary, maybe more to get the spray right on the alky, whether you're using alky or race fuel.
If going *real* fast becomes a goal, a whole lot of other things would have to happen, and the alky may not make sense at that point.
Just my .02....
Jim
This is exactly what I am wanting to go with. I eventually want to have a street car that can break 11s. That's kinda far away, but not out out of the question. I'm not a drag racer, but it's nice to have the power all the time.
thanks for the replies
Mr URL
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 674
I'm running in conservative tune 11.80's @ 115 on 91 octane pump gas. There is a mid 11 in it if pushed. What else can you ask for in a fun true street car that gets 27+ mpg?? Not one thing has been lighted in this T-Top car. Even has the stock wheels. (3,900lb with full tank of gas and me behind the wheel)
Piedmont Dragway in Julian, NC.
www.piedmontdragway.com
Probably the best 1/8 mile track around. The closest 1/4 mile track is pretty much a day trip.
alcohol injection
Alcohol injection is not a substitute for problems you might have.But if you want to run high boost on pump gas it is the way to go.You have to work with it and tune it though.I had my system running well with my stock downpipe easily iiin the 12's.I then installed a TH downpipe and could only run a 13.4My car sounded fine but was running rich.I found out that I could run the pump speed at 7 1/2 with the stock downpipe and I had to go back to 5 1/2 with the TH downpipe.Figure that one out.I was still running rich on the bottom end but I had a post on here and fron the answeres I got I turned my pump turn on boost pressure up and that helped.I am now wondering if a chip burned for alcohol tha might lean the car a little until a certain speed is possible.I run Sunoco 94 and I can run 22 pounds of boost with 0 knock.I have the stock turbo and injectors.Bruce
Alcohol injection is not a substitute for problems you might have.But if you want to run high boost on pump gas it is the way to go.You have to work with it and tune it though.I had my system running well with my stock downpipe easily iiin the 12's.I then installed a TH downpipe and could only run a 13.4My car sounded fine but was running rich.I found out that I could run the pump speed at 7 1/2 with the stock downpipe and I had to go back to 5 1/2 with the TH downpipe.Figure that one out.I was still running rich on the bottom end but I had a post on here and fron the answeres I got I turned my pump turn on boost pressure up and that helped.I am now wondering if a chip burned for alcohol tha might lean the car a little until a certain speed is possible.I run Sunoco 94 and I can run 22 pounds of boost with 0 knock.I have the stock turbo and injectors.Bruce
