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Amsoil has ZDDP

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sailbrd

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Messages
482
Got the following back from Amsoil. They seem to understand the problem and have solutions. Had to play around to get this in so sorry about the format.


OBJECTIVE:
Provide facts outlining lubrication requirements of flat tap-pet and camshaft style engines and the effect of motor oil additives containing higher levels of zinc/phosphorus.
ISSUES:
Engine oils contain anti-wear additives and the most com-mon anti-wear chemistry is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZnDDP), which contains a combination of zinc and phos-phorus. In 2005, in an effort to guarantee catalytic con-verter performance in new vehicles, the American Petro-leum Institute (API) and International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) instituted API SM and IL-SAC GF-4 quality standards which reduced the maximum limit for phosphorus to 0.085% and 0.080% respectively. Both API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications also contain a minimum phosphorus content of .065% and .060%.
Previously, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 oils were restricted to 0.10% phosphorus level, so a concern arose that oils con-taining lower levels of zinc/phosphorus could provide insuf-ficient protection in high pressure areas of flat tappets and camshaft lobes found in many older cars and high-performance engines.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
Proper assembly lubes and oil additives should be used dur-ing the break-in phase for all new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets. These additives provide the extra protection required at the point of contact during break-in to help the flat tappet face to properly mate with the cam lobe. Once the break-in phase is completed, these additives should not be used because of other engine life issues created by long term use of these materials. AMSOIL does not provide break-in assembly lubricants, but one of the common prod-ucts is GM E.O.S., which is an assembly lubricant and is not, as stated by GM, an engine oil additive. AMSOIL does not recommend using any engine oil additives with AM-SOIL engine lubricants.
High-performance modified engines benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear properties. The flat tappet/camshaft lobe interface is the one area in an engine that has extreme contact load. This load increases signifi-cantly where non-stock, high-pressure valve springs are em-ployed so the use of properly formulated engine lubricants is extremely important to reduce wear and extend flat tap-pet/camshaft life. In these applications, AMSOIL recom-mends motor oils containing high levels of zinc/phosphorus for superior protection.
RECOMMENDATION:
AMSOIL AMO, ARO, HDD, TRO, and AHR all contain high levels of zinc/phosphorus maximizing flat tappet/camshaft life in stock and modified applications.
AMSOIL 10W-40 (AMO) and 20W-50 (ARO) are premium synthetic formulations which are recommended for API SL (gasoline)/CI-4 Plus (heavy-duty, on-road diesel) specified applications. They are an outstanding choice where high zinc containing protection is required in late model hot rods requiring extra camshaft protection.
AMSOIL (HDD) is a 5W-30 weight combination diesel/gasoline oil with a higher starting TBN to handle the signifi-cant stresses from high soot loading and acid generation in modern diesel engines. HDD contains the high phosphorus and zinc required for long life.


TSB: MO-2007-08-08
Date: 8/3/2007
Page 1 of 2
Subject: Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lobe Lubrication
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils
Submitted By: TSSTPM
Reviewed By: DP
Approval By: COO Date:
Distribution: ___Internal _X_All
AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006
Submitted By: DP
AA Date: 08/08/07
AMSOIL Product Name Phosphorus Level
(ppm) Zinc Level
(ppm)
THE LAST TWO NUMBERS HERE ARE THE PHOSPHORUS LEVEL THEN ZINC LEVEL
AMO 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection 1265 1378
ARO 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection 1266 1379
HDD Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil 1266 1379
TRO 20W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil 1235 1370
AHR SAE 60 Synthetic Racing Oil 1265 1375

AMSOIL 20W-50 (TRO) is a premium synthetic racing oil with superior film strength and anti-wear protection for gasoline engines. It is an excellent choice for street or race cars, hot rods, trucks or boats. TRO is the preferred choice for highly modified, high horsepower engines requiring the extra protection required by flat tappet camshaft engines.
AMSOIL (AHR) is a super heavy weight racing oil de-signed for alcohol and nitro burning race engines where viscosity loss associated with fuel dilution is a concern. AHR includes a high dose of zinc containing anti-wear chemistry that race engines require.
 
i run the amsoil 20w50 racing in my car gonna pull a oil sample and send it in to be tested and see how it's holding up in my engine.
 
i run the amsoil 20w50 racing in my car gonna pull a oil sample and send it in to be tested and see how it's holding up in my engine.

It would be interesting to see the results. Be sure to keep us posted.
 
OK, so I subscribe to Kirbans newsletter and have heard about the reduction of ZDDP and he is selling some kind of additive to add to bring it back to sufficient levels. I have been using Mobil 1 ever since I got my GN in 1994, should I be concerned? I have 3 other 80's V-8's with flat tappet cams albeit not high performance like the Turbo Buick and with the thousands of other flat tappet cammed vintage engines out there is this really such a big deal???

TIA
 
In a stock motor where you are not breaking in a motor or a new cam installation, I would consider it more of a good "preventative maintenance" measure than anything else. Naturally, roller rockers diminish and / or remove the need for such. A search under "GM EOS" will fill you in, as I don't think that there is a universal answer that fits everybody's needs or questions.
 
I was always told synthetic oil prevents proper break in.
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I would probably never choose Mobil1 Synthetic or any synthetic for breaking in a cam and / or a motor. There are several notable motor builders on TB.com that do not recommend Mobil1 Synthetic for a motor oil for general use, and a lot of the same builders will not guarantee their motor if Mobil1 synthetic or any synthetic is used for either break-in or general use. On a fresh cam installation or a fresh motor rebuild, I would go by the cam installer's or the motor builders recommendation. For general use in a turbo Buick, or any flat tappet camshaft motor, there are enough posts and / or threads to aide one in making a choice. I am running Mobil1 Synthetic 10W-30and a bottle or a bottle+ of GM EOS until I run out of either and by then somebody will have polled again and I will reconsider.
I do not wish to reinvent the wheel here, but I know that Nick Micale is strictly against Mobil1 Synthetic in his motors for any reason, I do not know the stand of Lou Czarnota on this issue, nor do I know the opinion of Russ Merritt about the use of synthetic oil, but all of these builders have built many fine motors for the turbo Buick community. Maybe they will pass on their judgement on this issue.
 
Reply

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I would probably never choose Mobil1 Synthetic or any synthetic for breaking in a cam and / or a motor. There are several notable motor builders on TB.com that do not recommend Mobil1 Synthetic for a motor oil for general use, and a lot of the same builders will not guarantee their motor if Mobil1 synthetic or any synthetic is used for either break-in or general use. On a fresh cam installation or a fresh motor rebuild, I would go by the cam installer's or the motor builders recommendation. For general use in a turbo Buick, or any flat tappet camshaft motor, there are enough posts and / or threads to aide one in making a choice. I am running Mobil1 Synthetic 10W-30and a bottle or a bottle+ of GM EOS until I run out of either and by then somebody will have polled again and I will reconsider.
I do not wish to reinvent the wheel here, but I know that Nick Micale is strictly against Mobil1 Synthetic in his motors for any reason, I do not know the stand of Lou Czarnota on this issue, nor do I know the opinion of Russ Merritt about the use of synthetic oil, but all of these builders have built many fine motors for the turbo Buick community. Maybe they will pass on their judgement on this issue.
All my years around cars, engine oil,wax & spark plugs were always a matter of discussion.This subject has been beat to death. Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never experienced any cam failures in any of my engines or any other of my vehicles useing synthetic oils.I know Corvette, Porsche, & other high end car manufactures recommend mobil oil. But i'm not a chemist or engineer so I don't have an honest opinion to offer. I think I will look futher into this & speak to my cam supplier & get thier input. Don't forget where some of these or maybe all of them get their cores from Mexico,china,turkey or elsewhere.So who knows what were getting anymore.Some time ago Comp had a bunch of cam problems. Turned out to be the manufactureing process.I wouldn't be too quick to blame synthetic oil for some of this.
 
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