Anyone Want A Buick???

[87TIGN]

Ive had enough of this car!!!! I just put around 15k in this stupid motor and just got it back from my machine shop. They started it and broke it in and I am now in the process of putting the intial 500 miles on this motor. I have about 170 on it now and the boost is set at about 5-7psi. I dont boost it much in the initial 500 but do boost it a little as I have heard that helps with the rings seating. My tranny is slipping bad between 2nd and 3rd gear and I have an appointment to throw money at it on the 3rd of march. I am going for a complete overhaul and a performance shift kit. So here is my problem.... I was merging onto the highway from a stop and since the tranny is in such bad shape I pretty much have to manually shift it through the gears if I want to gain any speed otherwise it goes through first and second and than just revs freeley untill I let off the gas and it eases in 3rd. Well while I was doing this I hit about 6psi and shifted to 2nd again hit about 6psi and into 3rd and than I saw knock!! About 2.1-2.5 and once in third and into fourth at about 7spi I got 3.5 counts!! WHAT THE F**K!!! :frown: I am so pissed I originally pulled the motor cause I was seeing 35 counts at times at about 5 psi and come to find out it was the camshaft, which had been poorly installed and screwed up my lifters, pushrods and rockers which were just flopping around. Sometimes I will see a bit when I boost a little in 3rd (if the tranny lets me) when I decelerate (up to about 2.1 counts) What is going on here??? I had a really nice build on this car (see sig) and the engie temp and oil temps are perfect. running about .42 tps at idle, 42 psi of pressure on the fuel gauge, never above 160-170 on the tranny temp gauge. Is this because my tranny is toast? Maybe something in it is kncoking around in there or broken or just the vibration from the slippage causing my knock sensor to pick up some residual? I cant hear the motor knocking but that dosent mean its not there. Please help, I am at my wits end here :frown: .....
-Andrew

 

[VadersV6]

Sounds like one of my posts. If youre valvetrain is banging around, that will set off the knock sensor. Its not a matter of being improperly installed....unless there was no lifter preload or they didnt tighten down the rocker shafts all the way...in which case the motor wouldnt have lasted at all. If your cam went flat, it could be many things, but the most basic 2 issues are using the wrong oil and/or the wrong break in, or no break in procedure. Having alot of spring pressure is not a cause of the lobes going flat, unless it's ALOT of spring pressure....if you have oil with plenty of zinc, phosphorous, and an additional help which is moly...moly by itself is almost as good as the zinc and phosphorous. Having them all in 1 package is the best, and oils like redline and royal purple have plenty of everything. Dont use an oil that has reduced zinc and phosphorous.Most of the oils that have the starburst symbol have reduced levels, and are ok for engines with roller cams but not flat tappets.
You say you were seeing 35 counts at times....What do you mean by that? 35degrees of knock retard? Is that even possible?
Is you TV cable hooked up? If so, is it adjusted anywhere near the correct position?
Take a pair of vice grips and gently pinch off the PCV line and start it up. Pop the breather off of the drivers side valve cover. Are you seeing alot of blowby?...like a significant amount? A solid oil vapor in the intake charge will lower the effective octane to the low-high 70's. I made a whole oil catch system thats far above and beyond the normal "catchcan" setup, to deal with all the blowby I have, thanks to bad #5rings.
A long 1/2" hose is your best friend with these cars. Its helped me figure out a million things. Use it as a stethoscope to listen for a sucking sound at the base of every fuel injector (bad injector o-ring), at the vacuum manifold block, all around the intake manifolds sealing points, and listen to the ticking of each fuel injector and make sure they all sound the same. Use the hose to listen for exhaust leaks. A screwdriver isnt going to pick up vacuum leaks and a propane test doesnt work.

 

[nick368]

For a second when I was reading your post, I thought you were talking about my car. I've put about 15k into the car. Re-did the whole motor, with all the right stuff, picked it up Friday, was 10 miles down the road and the tranny went-the only thing I haven't replaced on the car since I bought it in July. First and second gear shifted a little late, third shifted so late that it must've been close to the red line and then it felt like I was in neutral. I heard a clack sound and then a little smoke and that was enough for me-I shut off and am now pulling the tranny and replacing.

I feel your pain...I truly do. I've been depressed all weekend. I have yet to drive the car for more than 15 minutes, since I bought it.

Hang in there. I need to hear that this happens to other people.

Nick

 

[87TIGN]

For a second when I was reading your post, I thought you were talking about my car. I've put about 15k into the car. Re-did the whole motor, with all the right stuff, picked it up Friday, was 10 miles down the road and the tranny went-the only thing I haven't replaced on the car since I bought it in July. First and second gear shifted a little late, third shifted so late that it must've been close to the red line and then it felt like I was in neutral. I heard a clack sound and then a little smoke and that was enough for me-I shut off and am now pulling the tranny and replacing.

I feel your pain...I truly do. I've been depressed all weekend. I have yet to drive the car for more than 15 minutes, since I bought it.

Hang in there. I need to hear that this happens to other people.

Nick

Nick I too am glad to hear this happened to you and it is not just happening to me (not to be mean if ya know what I mean!) I know we just gotta hang in there but sometimes its not that easy ya know. I too am now feeling depressed about my whole situation. Thanks for you input and good luck to you as well. Lemme know what happens
-Andrew

 

[87TIGN]

Sounds like one of my posts. If youre valvetrain is banging around, that will set off the knock sensor. Its not a matter of being improperly installed....unless there was no lifter preload or they didnt tighten down the rocker shafts all the way...in which case the motor wouldnt have lasted at all. If your cam went flat, it could be many things, but the most basic 2 issues are using the wrong oil and/or the wrong break in, or no break in procedure. Having alot of spring pressure is not a cause of the lobes going flat, unless it's ALOT of spring pressure....if you have oil with plenty of zinc, phosphorous, and an additional help which is moly...moly by itself is almost as good as the zinc and phosphorous. Having them all in 1 package is the best, and oils like redline and royal purple have plenty of everything. Dont use an oil that has reduced zinc and phosphorous.Most of the oils that have the starburst symbol have reduced levels, and are ok for engines with roller cams but not flat tappets.
You say you were seeing 35 counts at times....What do you mean by that? 35degrees of knock retard? Is that even possible?
Is you TV cable hooked up? If so, is it adjusted anywhere near the correct position?
Take a pair of vice grips and gently pinch off the PCV line and start it up. Pop the breather off of the drivers side valve cover. Are you seeing alot of blowby?...like a significant amount? A solid oil vapor in the intake charge will lower the effective octane to the low-high 70's. I made a whole oil catch system thats far above and beyond the normal "catchcan" setup, to deal with all the blowby I have, thanks to bad #5rings.
A long 1/2" hose is your best friend with these cars. Its helped me figure out a million things. Use it as a stethoscope to listen for a sucking sound at the base of every fuel injector (bad injector o-ring), at the vacuum manifold block, all around the intake manifolds sealing points, and listen to the ticking of each fuel injector and make sure they all sound the same. Use the hose to listen for exhaust leaks. A screwdriver isnt going to pick up vacuum leaks and a propane test doesnt work.

Well I have a rooler valvetrain so that helps I guess. Less chance of the cam being shot. The TV Cable is the one hooked up the the throttle body right? Thats the one that my mechanic found was excessivly tight so he set it back to what it was stock. I noticed that the trans shifted HARD before he fixed it. Like hard enough that it would chirp the tires constantly when shifting. I also noticed that when I applied even the slightest bit of the gas pedal it would immediatly down shift. He said all of this was because that cable was so tight. The previous couple of owners of this car really screwed me and I find myself catching and fixing all of there screw ups. Its just like if ya dont know what it does DONT TOUCH IT!!! So I started to feel thrid slip a litttle bit before the adjustment but as soon as he adjusted the cabe to wehre it should be is when third was pretty much toast. The guys who longblocked my motor are the best of the best in CO and I dont think they screwed anything up. I will try using a piece of hose and see what that does thanks and Ill keep you posted.
-Andrew

 

[Gnat352]

When my Stock trans was slipping I had to manually shift it into the gears like you said. I was on the parkway and got into wot and all was good till I shifted...then knock...could have been the fact that I was banging threw gears that caused it....or my DP hitting the controll arm......

I found out that it was my trans causing the problem when I would manually shift it while going into wot.....

 

[turbo39151]

stop driving the car in that condition. Trailer it to the trans shop and get that trans taken care of. You're driving yourself crazy for no reason. Just get it fixed and see how things go.

 

[johnnyttype]

i dont know about u guys but whenever i have performed the reset procedure on my TV cable, it has never felt like a proper shift! Over time these cables can stretch, and then u perform the reset procedure which i would not think would account for the stretch in the cable correct? i would say try atleast one click tighter on the TV before u condem the tranny if not two clicks.

i actually had one instance where i must have kicked the go pedal too hard or far and the TV cable popped out of place and the transmission flared really, really bad kinda the way these trannys sound. just a thought guys, but i am no tranny man so...

 

[87TIGN]

Thanks so much for your input guys I really appreciate it. I will try doin the tv cable a couple more clicks (just pull on it?) and than if its still pissin me off Ill just let it sit until the tranny shop is free. Thanks again guys
-Andrew

 

[hrhoward]

Yeah, make sure the TV cable and the linkage is properly adjusted.

 

[johnnyttype]

Thanks so much for your input guys I really appreciate it. I will try doin the tv cable a couple more clicks (just pull on it?) and than if its still pissin me off Ill just let it sit until the tranny shop is free. Thanks again guys
-Andrew

its a "D" shaped button u press in with ur right hand to release it and then push the cable housing(cone shaped piece with cable going through it) back towards the firewall a click or two! hth

 

[shifty6]

Tranny probs.

Thanks so much for your input guys I really appreciate it. I will try doin the tv cable a couple more clicks (just pull on it?) and than if its still pissin me off Ill just let it sit until the tranny shop is free. Thanks again guys
-Andrew

Andrew, Didn't see mention of a trans. cooler in your sig. Do you have one?? If not, that is prolly the reason for toasting the trans!! You can't put much more HP at all to these cars (i.e. more heat) without frying the trans. You'll notice that GM made sure they addressed this when they equipped the GNX with one. Make sure to include one with your trans. rebuild! HTH.

 

[87TIGN]

Andrew, Didn't see mention of a trans. cooler in your sig. Do you have one?? If not, that is prolly the reason for toasting the trans!! You can't put much more HP at all to these cars (i.e. more heat) without frying the trans. You'll notice that GM made sure they addressed this when they equipped the GNX with one. Make sure to include one with your trans. rebuild! HTH.

The two lines that come off the pass side of the trans and run up to the radiator are trans cooler lines right?

 

[BW Jones]

i would recommend being cautious about who you allow to dig into your 2004r. you could end up spending lots of $ just to be disappointed.
bw jones

 

[shifty6]

trans cooler

The two lines that come off the pass side of the trans and run up to the radiator are trans cooler lines right?

Yes...that is the stock trans fluid cooling method (marginal) which runs the fluid to the Rad. and back. You need an aftermarket specific trans cooler/the ADDITIONAL cooling needed.

 

[rob86gn]

It sounds like your trans lines are going into your radiator which is fine however, you should also have another cooler mounted in front of the radiator. If not, be sure to get one if you do get your trans rebuilt.

Also, sometimes we get "false" knock when the trans shifts hard. Make a list of possible problems and eliminate one at a time. You may want to go through the process of trouble shooting the knock sensor, gauge, module, and wiring to make certain you are getting accurate information. Your engine builder should be able to help you trouble shoot any problems if it's the engine.

I don't see how you could have knock with only 4-7lbs of boost and 93 octane. I guess your elevation in CO could be a factor, I don't know but down here in Chicago at 800' above the sea we don't get knock with 93 octane, 5-7lbs of boost, and 8.5:1 compression. I can run 17lbs on 93 with my stock block- no knock. Good luck. Hope this helps, many of us have struggled with these cars...

 

[87TIGN]

It sounds like your trans lines are going into your radiator which is fine however, you should also have another cooler mounted in front of the radiator. If not, be sure to get one if you do get your trans rebuilt.

Also, sometimes we get "false" knock when the trans shifts hard. Make a list of possible problems and eliminate one at a time. You may want to go through the process of trouble shooting the knock sensor, gauge, module, and wiring to make certain you are getting accurate information. Your engine builder should be able to help you trouble shoot any problems if it's the engine.

I don't see how you could have knock with only 4-7lbs of boost and 93 octane. I guess your elevation in CO could be a factor, I don't know but down here in Chicago at 800' above the sea we don't get knock with 93 octane, 5-7lbs of boost, and 8.5:1 compression. I can run 17lbs on 93 with my stock block- no knock. Good luck. Hope this helps, many of us have struggled with these cars...

Yeah I know that way to little boost to be having problems so I am assuming (you know what that means ) that it is the trans doing it. Also I cant find 93 anywhere all I can get is 91 which is a pain in the donkey if ya know what I mean.
-Andrew

 

[87TIGN]

i would recommend being cautious about who you allow to dig into your 2004r. you could end up spending lots of $ just to be disappointed.
bw jones

Yeah I know and I am afraid of that too but this guy is highly reccomended and builds alot of auto trannies for dragsters (1700+ hp) and they hold up spectacular. Somebody in the tranny forum said to get a hold of Brian H-something but when I posted again for contact info no one responded. His link on the home page just goes right back to the home page so thats no help either. Any info for me?
-Andrew

 

[KevinB]

I don't put too much faith in the stock knock detector. In fact, I don't even use one anymore. Especially with noisy roller cams and such. I am in the habit of pulling a plug or two out after every run and look for detonation on the plugs. IMO, trying to get a tune with a zero knock reading on a scan tool will make you pull your hair out.

 

[87TIGN]

Ok so this is gonna sound really bad but what does detonation look like on a spark plug?
-Andrew