Ate Oil

[85_Daphne]

my 84 t type went to the drag strip for the first time last night. didnt do so well, but you'll hear why. i changed the oil a couple hours before my first race. first pass went ok, ****ty time but what can i do right. 2nd pass really bad, started making funky noise. the 3rd pass was just as bad and noise was just as bad.

we took my car back to the pits checked the oil dipstick only to find out there is no oil in the pan! the car wouldnt start, so we put 3 qrts in, and she fired right up. my question is how does a car eat that much oil in the span of 4 or 5 hrs. o ya, there was some coming from the drivers side around the intake and head. its not a head gasket we konw that and its not the valve covers either. i was thinking valve seals or piston rings? any help is greatly appreciate. thank you, william.

p.s. sorry this is so long

 

[Boost231]

was any leaking on to the ground? did you have smoke out the tail pipes? the oil drian back tube is in the back of the motor on the passenger side. Is this tube placed in teh grommet? is it kinked?

 

[85_Daphne]

no the oil wasnt leaking to the ground. and yes there was smoke out the tail pipe. and the oil drain tube is in the grommet and doesnt appear to be kinked.

i took the down pipe and exhaust pipe off the turbo assembly to find small traces of liquid ( i would presume oil ) in the exhaust pipe. this would mean oil is making its way through the turbo and into the exhaust right?

 

[Jerryl]

no the oil wasnt leaking to the ground. and yes there was smoke out the tail pipe. and the oil drain tube is in the grommet and doesnt appear to be kinked.

i took the down pipe and exhaust pipe off the turbo assembly to find small traces of liquid ( i would presume oil ) in the exhaust pipe. this would mean oil is making its way through the turbo and into the exhaust right?

Oil in DP possible causes :

Broken Ring(s)
Blown piston
Blown / Leaking Head gasket
Leaking intake gasket
Valve Guides
Turbo seals (Compressor and Turbine side)

Most likely, turbo seal or HG.
If you used that much oil and it went through the motor, you would know. (LOTSA Smoke!)
Did you use a scantool while tuning and/or at the track to monitor KR?
How much oil did you put in the crankcase?
Are you using the right dipstick?

 

[85_Daphne]

the side it looked like the oil was at, i just replaced the head gasket. so im kind of skeptical on that. not only because the head gasket was new, but the fact that the exhaust manifold was dry as could be and should have been covered in oil had the head gasket blown.

the entire intake has been regasketed while i installed the new head gasket. where is the turbo seal located and how can i tell if it is faulty?

the smoke i able to see, from the engine itself, was on the drivers side. the same side taht got the new head gasket. i was told smoke was hella coming out the exhaust pipe so i imagine it was really buring.

as far as scan tools, i have not purchased on but its at the top of my list as soon as my car is fixed.

 

[Boost231]

i would pull the up-pipe and shine a flashlight down the passenger side header if there is no oil there then thats a good thing. then i would pull the dp and see if there is oil there (im sure there will be) then its the turbo seals. time for a new turbo thats all.

 

[85_Daphne]

ok, just new turbo, no worries, other than the fact that sh*t it expensive, but o well its just money right? LOL. thank you for the help, i'll let you know waht i find out.

 

[Boost231]

well lets hope its just the turbo. Take a look and see where the oil is. It could be leaking on the intake side as well and showing oil all over the place. best thing would be to also do a compression test and a leak down test.

 

[85_Daphne]

ok. oil isnt all over hell, just on the drivers side. waht do i need to get to do a leak down test?

 

[boostmaster]

smoke

Don't want to rain on your parade but If you ran the crankcase dry @ wot for the length of time that you did I can guarantee you that there is some damage to the engine bearings. Also if it is losing oil that bad more than likely it is the turbo or blown head gasket. Pull off the up pipe and look down in the header if it is wet blown head gasket, if it is fairly dry pull off the downpipe if it is full of oil bad turbo.

 

[85_Daphne]

update: before i took my car racing, i changed the oil in it. put the full 5 qts. just like im supposed to. last night after we decided not to run it anymore, we were checking around and decided it was out of oil, since we couldnt see any on the dipstick. we put in 2 quarts of oil so i could get it started and put back on the trailer.

now, i just drained the oil not but 2 min. ago and had probably 5 to 6 qts of oil drain out off the pan. WTF! no oil on the dipstick but oil in the pan?.?.?.?

so heres my question, could it possibly be that the oil passage lines in the engine are clogged to a certain extent and the oil wouldnt go to the pan last night, but managed to work its way down there between last night and tonight?

the up pipe was oil free when i looked at it. the housing that connects the DP to the tubro is where i found a little bit of oil, not much but just a little. so im guessing the turbo is on the down and outs. also, the line that conncts the MAP sensor to the intake, wasnt hooked up, what would be the significance of that? any more info ya'll can provide is greatly appreciated!

 

[85_Daphne]

heres another update:
1.i added like 4.5 qts of new oil, the dipstick reads it at full so thats good.
2. i started it up, then shut it off to find some oil in the wastegate housing (turbo must be going on the down and outs)
3. i looked at the 2 holes in my heads that the oil in supposed to drain into to go to the oil pan, only to find i screwed up when i put the head gasket on cause the holes are obstructed just a little. wahts this mean? i figure oil is
A. being blown out the breather valve and
B. going down into the engine which would explain why i was getting smoke, buring oil and having oil in the turbo

does any of this sound right?

 

[Turbo Riviera]

heres another update:
1.i added like 4.5 qts of new oil, the dipstick reads it at full so thats good.
2. i started it up, then shut it off to find some oil in the wastegate housing (turbo must be going on the down and outs)
3. i looked at the 2 holes in my heads that the oil in supposed to drain into to go to the oil pan, only to find i screwed up when i put the head gasket on cause the holes are obstructed just a little. wahts this mean? i figure oil is
A. being blown out the breather valve and
B. going down into the engine which would explain why i was getting smoke, buring oil and having oil in the turbo

does any of this sound right?

You can't screw up putting on the head gaskets... The gasket drain holes are slightly different than the casting in the heads.

I'm guessing the reason you had no oil on the dipstick after your pass was... You didn't give adequate time for the oil to drain back into the pan. Sounds like you have plenty of oil now.

I'm not sure why you guys think that a blown head gasket can cause oil to be in the downpipe. Or anywhere in the exhaust for that matter. It would have to blow very oddly for a 3.8 Buick motor to do that. Usually, they blow the coolant passage at the ends of the block, or between cylinders. I've had a few go to the inside of the motor from lack of bolt torque, but highly unlikely here.

You said the up pipe was oil free, but the down pipe has oil... What is in between the up and down pipe? The turbo.
99.9% you have blown a seal in the turbo. /thread.

 

[85_Daphne]

would a bad turbo seal, make it so there is oil all over the drivers side of the engine bay?

 

[Jerryl]

........... I'm not sure why you guys think that a blown head gasket can cause oil to be in the downpipe. Or anywhere in the exhaust for that matter. It would have to blow very oddly for a 3.8 Buick motor to do that. Usually, they blow the coolant passage at the ends of the block, or between cylinders. .........

Scott,
First off, I agree completely.
It would take one heck of a blown HG to loose that much oil.
This not a "lesson", but merely a sharing of actual experience and theory from the "blown HG thingy".

When my HG blew on #4 (a few years ago), it blew into the lifter valley.
This created excess CC pressure, and pushed excessive oil vapors into the PCV. Shortly afterwards, the piston completely burned from the oil/detonation.
This of course, created even more CC pressure and oil in the cylinder.
The excess oil in the cylinder, made it through the exhaust and some into the EGR, intake manifold and all other cylinders.

The excess CC pressure has been known to take out the turbo seal as well. This is the result of coking due to reduced oil flow and "oil drain".
Oh yeah, all this fun, and it took out the block as well.

Why should we suspect a HG as the root cause? :tongue:
No scantool , but then again ........ Actual results may vary.

Oh, the picture is added "For entertainment purposes only!"
Duplication of the experiment is prohibited and not encouraged.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/at...blew-head-gasket-burnt-block-blown-piston.jpg

 

[Jerryl]

would a bad turbo seal, make it so there is oil all over the drivers side of the engine bay?

No. You will need to look at the:
Valve cover
Intake/block seal (in the corner where the head/block/intake join)
PCV grommet (sp??)

 

[85_Daphne]

when looking at the valve cover, intake/block seal, PCV grommett, waht should i be looking for?

 

[Jerryl]

my 84 t type went to the drag strip for the first time last night. didnt do so well, but you'll hear why. i changed the oil a couple hours before my first race. first pass went ok, ****ty time but what can i do right. 2nd pass really bad, started making funky noise. the 3rd pass was just as bad and noise was just as bad.

we took my car back to the pits checked the oil dipstick only to find out there is no oil in the pan! the car wouldnt start, so we put 3 qrts in, and she fired right up. my question is how does a car eat that much oil in the span of 4 or 5 hrs. o ya, there was some coming from the drivers side around the intake and head. its not a head gasket we konw that and its not the valve covers either. i was thinking valve seals or piston rings? any help is greatly appreciate. thank you, william.

p.s. sorry this is so long

no the oil wasnt leaking to the ground. and yes there was smoke out the tail pipe. and the oil drain tube is in the grommet and doesnt appear to be kinked.

i took the down pipe and exhaust pipe off the turbo assembly to find small traces of liquid ( i would presume oil ) in the exhaust pipe. this would mean oil is making its way through the turbo and into the exhaust right?

when looking at the valve cover, intake/block seal, PCV grommett, waht should i be looking for?

Oil?
Seriously, clean the areas, start the engine, see if/where the oil is comming from. That will tell the tale.

Your original posts threw us all off, since you stated there was no oil leaking, not a lot opf smoke and no oil in the motor. Maybe I read too much "into" posts or think too much.

Edit:
Based on all your descriptions, is it possible that the dipstick was not pushed all the way down when you checked for oil at the track?
I have chased my share of oil leaks over time and they are NEVER fun! I HATE oil leaks!

 

[85_Daphne]

would it be unreasonable to just yank the engine and rebuild? grantite this is probley the long way around the problem, but i got nothing else to do this winter, other than school.

 

[Jerryl]

would it be unreasonable to just yank the engine and rebuild? grantite this is probley the long way around the problem, but i got nothing else to do this winter, other than school.

Ok ..........
Going through a motor is always a good thing, as long as the builder/machinist knows what they are doing.
What is your goal for the car?
Be carefull! It is not as "cheap" as you think. ("Cheap" is a realtive term I guess )