ball bearing upgrade ,is it worth $500

[john evans]

hey guys, in everybody's opinion,is it worth an extra 500.00 to have ball bearings on a cpt66 or is a gt67 comparible,non bb.

 

[BoostKillsStres]

I have the 66 and it actually drives really really nice even with the stock D5 converter which I didn't think would be possible with this size turbo. I haven't even bothered yet to put in my 3000-3200 converter for it. From a 'totally' dead idle stomp its just a hair slower from 0-35 at the same boost setting(low 16-17) than my old TE44 but after that its making more power and by 80 its almost .5 sec faster and still gaining. Should be a bunch of fun once the converter goes in.

It would seem most prople recommend at least a 3500 converter for something this size and it was worth it to me to be able to live with a smaller converter and still spool nice and make good power.

Also this comparison is valid because my chip was keeping the A/F ratio the same between each test so it wasn't like one turbo was running richer or leaner and throwing off the results.

 

[john evans]

so it appears that the ball bearing turbo would spool very quickly with my 3400 ac n/l convertor.cpt66bb is good for what power potential?my pt52 is good for max. 600 hp.

 

[BoostKillsStres]

I would think it would spool like the blazes with that converter. I wanted to put together a high 10 sec potential combo that still drove great on the street and thats what Jack suggested I go with. I plan to add champion irons and a roller cam at some point to complete the combo. I believe the 66 is rated at 670 or 680.

 

[john evans]

thanks , mark.i guess i could even go to a 70 bb.without having any spooling issues.i just had to put an 85 exh. housing on my pt52, because i was killing the tires at the track.

 

[BoostKillsStres]

You probably could as long as you had everything else to support a 70, maybe someone else will chime in w/ a big BB. I'm sure Jack would be happy to discuss if you give him a ring, he's never done bad by me.

 

[john evans]

ttt

 

[DMOSTWANTED1]

I HAVE STEPPED UP TO A T66BB LAST SEASON WITH ALL THE TRIMINGS. IE: CHAMPION IRONS, 72'S INTAKE,70MMTB AND PLENEUM TRASNLATOR PLUS AND STILL HAVE ART CARR 16930 N/L IT RUNS LIKE A MONSTER MID AND TOPE END IN THE QUARTER. HAVE TO GET 6O" BETTER (188) CAR RAN 11.2 AT 123 W/HORRIBLE 60" TURBO HAS 82 HOUSING TOO. GOING TO A N/L 10" 3200-3400 STALL FOR BETTER 60" HOPEFULLY

 

[JCotton]

I'm not sure if this is the thread I was supposed to respond too, seems Noclue has an issue with what I respond to or not, but I'll try...... To answer the questions here, IMO, I prefer the BB option on my turbos and on many of the combinations I recommend for my customers when we are talking a 10 second combo or faster. My reasons for this choice are simple, the BB option spools better, with no ill affects related to longevity. I can run a tighter convertor on the street and still have a combo that performs at the track as good as on the street.
hope that helps,

James, give me a call monday, looks like the upgrade from the 44 turbo to the 66BB has given you a pretty good power jump 113mph with the 44 to 123mph with the 66...... nice. Now, it looks like some traction issue need to be resolved before turning up the wick...

 

[DMOSTWANTED1]

tried you on mon & tues but you were out, will try again on wed. Tires arent spinning just rolling out slowly, also changed to braided brake lines too.. which is better convertor or housing change??

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Here is my 2 cents

Pro's, ball bearing spools a bit faster and has better longevity if the oil stays debris free.

Con's, price and the fact that most turbos die due to debris, which means that the ball bearing would also.
Considering this and for around $350 you can rebuild a non bb turbo, its sort of not worth it IMO to go BB unless you are a serious racer and beat the hell of the car by running high boost.

 

[postal]

its sort of not worth it IMO to go BB unless you are a serious racer and beat the hell of the car by running high boost.

I totally disagree. Pure race cars can pre stage, get the turbo spooling, creep into full stage, and then leave with boost. Staying in pre stage gives them the time they need to spool.

Street cars have more advantages buy going BB than race cars:
1. spools quicker and car is more responsive and fun to drive.
2. allows tighter convertor, less slippage and less heat frying your high dollar built 200r4
3. if you do take it to the track you will 60' better and won't have to smoke the crap out of your tranny or convertor building boost.
4. you can go to a higher a/r exhaust housing and still spool fast, so can get even better top end charge.
5. the combonation of better 60' and more top end charge means you can run your number w/o leaning on the motor as hard.

Theres an easy $500 worth of advantages in that list.

I'm in the process of building a stage 2 motor for my car and in turbos for my application its around $1000 extra for BB. Because my car will be more race oriented I will be going back down to a non BB.

BTW: a compressor map for a T66 looks real nice into about 700hp. If you want some more input on a 66bb let me know.

HTH: Jason

 

[mec108]

Hey postal you forgot #6? Better resale value..

 

[GNVAIR]

Actually (and not trying to start trouble) if the car is more drag race oriented then there is no benefit to running a ball bearing. This is definitely true if launching off a trans brake as you have to bring the car to a complete stop before engaging the brake. Once on the brake you will be launching approximately 800-1000 rpms higher than your convertor's stall speed. There should be no issue spooling ANY turbo on a trans brake since you are loading the engine with the transmission. IIRC, all the large frame turbos (such as those larger than 80mm) are not available in a ball bearing. Maybe it is because they are basically race only pieces.

 

[JCotton]

Actually Lee, you are misinformed on all counts.... Not looking to start a war here either, but ...... let me share if I can without, hopefully, ruffleing any feathers or egos.

Actually (and not trying to start trouble) if the car is more drag race oriented then there is no benefit to running a ball bearing. This is definitely true if launching off a trans brake as you have to bring the car to a complete stop before engaging the brake. Once on the brake you will be launching approximately 800-1000 rpms higher than your convertor's stall speed. There should be no issue spooling ANY turbo on a trans brake since you are loading the engine with the transmission

First I'll say I drag race, alot.... I also use BB turbos and have also used non BB turbos. What we have found over the years, whether one is racing a pro tree or sportsman, spool up is the most important phase or racing, races are won and lost at the starting line, more often than at the finish line. I typically go into the lites cold, meaning I roll in at idle, on a pro tree, that gives me less than 2 seconds to get up on boost. Not an easy task..... My other option is to go in "hot", as we have seen in the past, lots can go wrong fast when trying to engage the trans brake and load the trans.......... rolling through the 2nd lite usually ends with a red lite. Hence the extra time I gain with a BB turbo, I believe is worth every penny of it. I also believe my BB turbo saves lots of wear and tear on my trans and motor since I don't have to stage "hot". Lastly, there are issue with spoling a turbo with or without a transbrake, when it is slow spooling, possibly due to a tight convertor or just a larger turbo, racers tend to run the big number test and tuning, since there is no rush to cut a lite, they can sit there however long it takes to get on boost and launch at their leisure. Come first round, cutting a lite becomes critical, especially when the guy in the next lane can turn a competitive number. I'll take a bb turbo, any day, makes a differance....

IIRC, all the large frame turbos (such as those larger than 80mm) are not available in a ball bearing. Maybe it is because they are basically race only pieces.

Again, not true. Tubonetics offers all of the Y2K line of turbos in BB, T76,80,82 and 88.

Hope this clears up things, just sharing my experience. Hope this doesn't rile the "Gods"

 

[GNVAIR]

Originally posted by JCotton
Actually Lee, you are misinformed on all counts.... Not looking to start a war here either, but ...... let me share if I can without, hopefully, ruffleing any feathers or egos.




First I'll say I drag race, alot.... I also use BB turbos and have also used non BB turbos. What we have found over the years, whether one is racing a pro tree or sportsman, spool up is the most important phase or racing, races are won and lost at the starting line, more often than at the finish line. I typically go into the lites cold, meaning I roll in at idle, on a pro tree, that gives me less than 2 seconds to get up on boost. Not an easy task..... My other option is to go in "hot", as we have seen in the past, lots can go wrong fast when trying to engage the trans brake and load the trans.......... rolling through the 2nd lite usually ends with a red lite. Hence the extra time I gain with a BB turbo, I believe is worth every penny of it. I also believe my BB turbo saves lots of wear and tear on my trans and motor since I don't have to stage "hot". Lastly, there are issue with spoling a turbo with or without a transbrake, when it is slow spooling, possibly due to a tight convertor or just a larger turbo, racers tend to run the big number test and tuning, since there is no rush to cut a lite, they can sit there however long it takes to get on boost and launch at their leisure. Come first round, cutting a lite becomes critical, especially when the guy in the next lane can turn a competitive number. I'll take a bb turbo, any day, makes a differance....



Again, not true. Tubonetics offers all of the Y2K line of turbos in BB, T76,80,82 and 88.

Hope this clears up things, just sharing my experience. Hope this doesn't rile the "Gods"

You're right. I'm wrong. So are all the guys faster than you running non BB turbos. This includes a lot of the Mustang guys running non BB turbos larger than 100mm. But that is neither here or there. True, some are running Liberties or Brunos and they can launch with the rpms as high as they want. I will stick by what I said. When you are loading the engine and/or launching at 4500+ rpms, spool up is a non issue.
When I mentioned that 80+ mm turbos, I was referring to the fact that for the longest time 80mm was the largest bb turbo available (via Innovative). I know you will defend everything you sell to people. Thats ok. But the FACT is that when launching at high rpm BB or non BB makes no difference.
I am not sure what "Gods" you are referring to

 

[JCotton]

Don't worry Lee, I wasn't referring to you as one of the "Gods" I appreciate your attempt at productive, informative info, it's just unfortunate how inaccurate it usually is. No need to debate anything with you, I've already had enough experience there to realize it's wasted time on my part, just like to see accurate info passed on.

But the FACT is that when launching at high rpm BB or non BB makes no difference

I was wrong, since you have just changed your original statement concerning "spooling",launching" is the step after spooling, they are both pretty close in the time it takes to achieve full boost.

As for Mustangs................ not alot in common when it comes to 8 cylinders vs our 6 cylinders, but since I race in several Heads up classes with other v8 cars and have seen some of these very fast Mustangs, I have seen many with Turbonetic BB turbos, for what it's worth.

One last statement, why is it guys with no BB experience feel a need to share what they think they know? If I could get the performance I am looking for with a cheaper turbo, don't you think I would use it. I think it is comicalto compare me with cars that run larger turbos than me, not to mention usually 10 more lbs of boost...............

 

[GNVAIR]

Originally posted by JCotton
Don't worry Lee, I wasn't referring to you as one of the "Gods" I appreciate your attempt at productive, informative info, it's just unfortunate how inaccurate it usually is. No need to debate anything with you, I've already had enough experience there to realize it's wasted time on my part, just like to see accurate info passed on.




I was wrong, since you have just changed your original statement concerning "spooling",launching" is the step after spooling, they are both pretty close in the time it takes to achieve full boost.

As for Mustangs................ not alot in common when it comes to 8 cylinders vs our 6 cylinders, but since I race in several Heads up classes with other v8 cars and have seen some of these very fast Mustangs, I have seen many with Turbonetic BB turbos, for what it's worth.

One last statement, why is it guys with no BB experience feel a need to share what they think they know? If I could get the performance I am looking for with a cheaper turbo, don't you think I would use it. I think it is comicalto compare me with cars that run larger turbos than me, not to mention usually 10 more lbs of boost...............

The only person in this thread with a God complex is you Jack.
As a matter of fact your repuatation with other vendors is legendary. But dont get me started since I know a lot more about you than you know about me.
Actually Jack, correct me if I am wrong, but Bill Anderson runs a very large non bb turbo. Care to shed some light on that?
I'm sure you will come back with some cute little retort. But that is fine. All I want to know is where were you 10 years ago?
Thats right, pulling the Frito Lay trailer. Maybe thats why your car is orange
Are you going to threaten me with physical harm again Jack??
I actually like this. I will come back everytime you come back.
Lets call it tit for tat.
You are one of those people that have an excuse for everything. Come on Jack! I'm waiting

 

[GNVAIR]

Btw, I do have BB experience as I do have my own side business of doing work for guys in this area. Get your facts straight partner.

 

[GNVAIR]

Must be working on a long response.