Best front seal for high rpm

[Alky V6]

I need some help on a front seal issue. I redline around 7400 to 7800 and my front seal is wearing faster than I like. What front seal are you guys using that takes the higher r's.

I'm also still using the OEM oil sling. Would I be better off removing the sling so that some oil can get to the seal to lube and cool it?

I'm presently using a National seal. Black rubber. It has oil pumping ribs on the lip. Comes in the felpro gasket sets I believe.
The numbers on the seal are S-12623 and K100674R. There is also a 1-16 on it.

 

[A2000RICH]

I need some help on a front seal issue. I redline around 7400 to 7800 and my front seal is wearing faster than I like. What front seal are you guys using that takes the higher r's.

I'm also still using the OEM oil sling. Would I be better off removing the sling so that some oil can get to the seal to lube and cool it?

I'm presently using a National seal. Black rubber. It has oil pumping ribs on the lip. Comes in the felpro gasket sets I believe.
The numbers on the seal are S-12623 and K100674R. There is also a 1-16 on it.

a seal made by Enginetech seems to work really good for me------i have used them for years and never had a problem...........RC

 

[Sam Colalillo]

I need some help on a front seal issue. I redline around 7400 to 7800 and my front seal is wearing faster than I like. What front seal are you guys using that takes the higher r's.

I'm also still using the OEM oil sling. Would I be better off removing the sling so that some oil can get to the seal to lube and cool it?

When I put my engine together I left the oil sling out. I use the DLS front cover whith the seal that came with it. I am not hitting 8,000 RPM but do come up to 7,400 often. This seal is not leaking.

Your theory kind of makes sense. I have often thought about putting the oil sling in over the winter, but there is this voice in my head telling me not fix what is not broke.

I am curious if it solves your issue. Please keep us posted on the results when you find a cure.

 

[V6gofast]

I need some help on a front seal issue. I redline around 7400 to 7800 and my front seal is wearing faster than I like. What front seal are you guys using that takes the higher r's.

I'm also still using the OEM oil sling. Would I be better off removing the sling so that some oil can get to the seal to lube and cool it?

I'm presently using a National seal. Black rubber. It has oil pumping ribs on the lip. Comes in the felpro gasket sets I believe.
The numbers on the seal are S-12623 and K100674R. There is also a 1-16 on it.

We don't do anything special up front either. You may have an alignment
issue that is causing premature wear. I usually use the slinger Sam,key word
here SLINGER. I am assuming that it helps to not only resrict oil from
the seal but helps to spray oil film at all the components under the cover.
We have been as high as 8400 RPM on a normal seal with the aftermarket
covers we use. I have an alignment tool that I made to check the crank to
seal housing bore on the front install covers.

 

[Alky V6]

I should explain how my front seal setup is first. I'm using a stock cover that has been highly modified. The oil pump area has been removed (running dry sump), and the water pump area has been replaced with an access cover for cam timing changes without having to disturb the timing cover and oil pan gaskets. The front seal mounting has been replaced with a seal retainer that is removeable from the front. The seal retainer bolts to the timing cover. Remove the retainer and the seal is replaced from the rear side of the retainer. The seal can't pop out going forward, and the timing cover won't allow the seal to pop out going rearward unless the retainer is removed from the timing cover.

The modification to the timing cover that allowed for a mounting plate for the seal retainer has brought the oil slinger very close to this mounting plate. Maybe .020" clearance. The hole in this same mounting plate is fairly tight around the damper hub snout that the seal rides on. On the outside of this hole in the seal retainer mounting boss is the front seal retainer. Alignment of the seal is perfect. I made sure of that. Any oil in the timing cover has to get around the slinger that is very close to the new mounting boss, and then has to go between the boss and the damper hub before any oil can get to the seal. I'm thinking I may have too many walls in the way keeping oil away from the seal. Maybe if I remove the slinger and just keep the clearance between the damper hub and mounting boss hole. Or maybe open the hole up a bit. I'm starting to think that the front seal has to get some oil.

I do pack the seal with brake lube during install, but inspection later shows that the grease has been sucked into the engine. I run a vacuum pump along with the drysump, with an open breather.

I have a pressurized orifice shooting oil onto the idler bearing of the gear drive timing set, so I'm not worried about the front not getting enough oiling.

If no one knows of a trick seal to use for this location, I think I'll just remove the slinger and leave the hole in the timing cover alone and see how things turn out. If it still wears, I'll just start opening the hole little by little to allow more oil to the front seal.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

We don't do anything special up front either. You may have an alignment
issue that is causing premature wear. I usually use the slinger Sam,key word
here SLINGER. I am assuming that it helps to not only resrict oil from
the seal but helps to spray oil film at all the components under the cover.
We have been as high as 8400 RPM on a normal seal with the aftermarket
covers we use. I have an alignment tool that I made to check the crank to
seal housing bore on the front install covers.

I left the Slinger out when I put the engine together (so little is stock in the engine now). I completely forgot about it. Then I was organizing my shop and came a crossed it. Once I saw it, I started thinking about taking things apart and installing it. It was right there on my bench in a box with the stock main caps, main cap bolts head bolts, and some other miscellaneous stuff.

Dan I guess I should have spent more time bugging you to make sure I had not forgot anything. In case you were wondering I already feel guilty for all the help and advice I received from you.

I'll be putting the slinger in over the winter. You have not steered me wrong so far. Thanks

 

[Alky V6]

I installed the timing cover today and checked the size of the hole behind the front seal. It's about 3/16 to 1/4" larger in diameter than the ID of the front seal. I'm thinking the seal will get enough oiling without the slinger in place. We'll see how it works.

 

[quickt]

I need some help on a front seal issue. I redline around 7400 to 7800 and my front seal is wearing faster than I like. What front seal are you guys using that takes the higher r's.

I'm also still using the OEM oil sling. Would I be better off removing the sling so that some oil can get to the seal to lube and cool it?

I'm presently using a National seal. Black rubber. It has oil pumping ribs on the lip. Comes in the felpro gasket sets I believe.
The numbers on the seal are S-12623 and K100674R. There is also a 1-16 on it.

I have a part number we have used many times that is for a Massey tractor that seems to work well with a lot of run out. I agree with Dan I think you have alignment problem. I will email the part number when I find it tomorrow. That seal will not leak but the front cover needs machined.

 

[Alky V6]

I have a part number we have used many times that is for a Massey tractor that seems to work well with a lot of run out. I agree with Dan I think you have alignment problem. I will email the part number when I find it tomorrow. That seal will not leak but the front cover needs machined.

Hi Lonnie. It's not an alignment problem. If it was, there would be more wear to the lip of the seal on one side than the other. The wear to the lip of the seal is even, all the way around the seal.

Another thing that makes me suspect that the seal was not getting enough oil. When I removed the timing cover and started cleaning out the front seal area, there was a lot of worn rubber material collected around the front seal. The material that had worn away from the lip of the seal had not washed away. It just collected around the seal. This new seal retainer setup is rather new and the engine wasn't run very long with it. Maybe 10 full passes. For the lip to wear as much as it did in such a short time, is a sure sign that I have something wrong. The most obvious thing being the amount of oil that the seal was getting with this setup. Believe me, I was very careful to get the alignment within .002 to .003" total runout when I fabbed this setup.

I hope the weather is letting up for you.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Don, sounds like you got something figured out here. How about try to get some more oil to lubricate that seal. I don't think there is a seal that will last without some kind of lubrication.

No leaks on my seal and it's never been out of the motor since built.

 

[quickt]

I hope the weather is letting up for you.

Electric at the house came back on yesterday. The shop is still on and off. Hopefully it stays on all day today. 4 days at the shop no electric and 1-1/2 at home. Good luck with the seal situation.