Best Street Setup

[turbot2496]

You've got mail

You should have the instructions if my email didn't jack it up like it usually does LOL.

 

[trading t/a]

Don't get me wrong you have had great results with alky! But for a street car running mid to low 12's IMO I don't need the headache. It's just one other thing to wrong. Pump goes you lean out bam there's everything in a nutshell or a bunch of nutshells depending on how you look at it.

A great port job, a healthy cam and intake work, running on a xylene mix with a proper tune could get him way past what he is looking for. Boost is addicting so if you think you wanna turn the wick up and go, ALKY may be the ticket.

Again it does cost money for the cam, heads other intake work and injectors and turbo. So it's not the budget oriented way to go.

 

[turbov6joe]

Just when someone questions using alky, keep this in mind when you doubt:
I ran 11.61 @ 120 MPH with stock injectors and alky with nothing more than a TE44, Walbro 340, and an ATR 2.5 " DP using the stock turbo elbow! That was an unopened 13k mile motor...

 

[89TTA1415]

Here are the numbers from my car warm at idle:

AF - 05
L8 - 34-48
BAT - 13.2
INT - 94-101
BL - 90 - This is constant as it never changes
NPH - 00
CLT - 173
ATS - 100
RPM - ~750
TPS - .46
IAC - 26
cc - starts and keeps going up
NAL - 45

If someone can shed some light on these it would help me out. I'm going to pull the ECU and see what kind of chip it has in it (probably a Thrasher) and I'm also going to check the MAF to see if it is stock or not. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Razor]

Here i'll toss you some bones..

Be happy you have a scan tool.

First two things.. MAL 45 = malfunction code. 45 means its picked up a problem. I'll let you hunt that one down.. GNTTYPE.org, or search for code 45

Second your BL = 90 is another bad thing. Its pegged pulling fuel out. Typically its either fuel pressure is too high, bad MAF sensor, wrong chip for the injectors car has. Like a stock injector chip when you have 50 lb injectors..example. Becuase its at 90.. I bet one doughnut its a Red Armstrong. The chip will say for what its for typically.

HTH.. yes I know what a 45 is..i'm not going to say.. part of the learning process is hunting the chart down, printing it out, and keeping it for a reference..thats how one learns.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by trading t/a
Don't get me wrong you have had great results with alky! But for a street car running mid to low 12's IMO I don't need the headache. It's just one other thing to wrong. Pump goes you lean out bam there's everything in a nutshell or a bunch of nutshells depending on how you look at it.

A great port job, a healthy cam and intake work, running on a xylene mix with a proper tune could get him way past what he is looking for. Boost is addicting so if you think you wanna turn the wick up and go, ALKY may be the ticket.

Again it does cost money for the cam, heads other intake work and injectors and turbo. So it's not the budget oriented way to go.

Trading T/A.. you have it all so way wrong. Alky is an insurance policy on your motor. You run your car on the edge of knock becuase you think it will work without issues..your making your 12.40 pass at 18 PSI boost..all of a sudden the WG hose breaks/pops of the turbo and the boost shoots up to 27 PSI..what do you think happens to your pride and joy.. kaboom... Heres another scenario.. your running 18 PSI boost WOT.. the line to your fuel pressure regulator pops off and the FP crashes down.. what happens when you lean it out at 18 PSI WOT.. last one.. your running down the track WOT..the tranny doesnt shift sending the rpms past the rev limiter.. what happens when you hit the rev limiter on our cars..its shuts down the injectors cuasing it to lean out.. another one guess what happens..

If you think these conditions only happen at the track.. your way off. you think its sheer luck I havent had my motor apart after over two years of hammering on it. Give you a hint.. no luck..

Lastly.. the above described conditions have happened to my own personal car. Has the pump failed me and cuased damage in the middle of a run.. no.. Why do you think I made the progressive controller.. to address the boost shoots to 27 PSI..when all I want to run is 18.

Peace brother.. insurance policy stays.. becuase its a street car

And you go and mention Xylene.. Thats way more of a headache and many times more expensive.

 

[89TTA1415]

Does anyone know where I can get a service manual? The scanmaster at idle bounces all over the place which I assume is O2 voltage levels. It is between .132 and .900. I found the code so I will start with the plug wires and plugs as they look like they are somewhat old and it has Moroso 8.5 mm wires on it.

 

[Razor]

Numbers bouncing around= normal

Address the BL at 90.. this is your problem. Not wires and such.

Trust me..reset your ecm by unplugging its power and replugging it in. The connector is rite by the battery, cant miss it. This will bring all the values to new..and then start car and wait a while. Watch your BL numbers. They have to be in the mid 120's to lower 130's "at Idle". takes a couple minutes for the ecm to relearn. And it will start at 128..when you see it starts moving.. it should stop..if it doesnt, its sensing a problem.

Low BL's is car is way too rich and the computer is pulling fuel out. Why is it way too rich?? look at my previous post.

Plugs and wires wont make it run rich..miss yes.. rich no. Bad MAF, chip, injectors, etc will.

 

[89TTA1415]

How do I test the MAF? I'm getting the correct numbers at idle and it does increase as the throttle is pressed. I have been considering buying MSD 50# injectors and getting a chip burned for them. I do have 009 injectors and most everyone says they run rich.

 

[Razor]

If you have a chip for stock injectors and run 009's.. you will have problems. Why dont you start there.

Only way I know how to test the MAF sensor is replacing it with a known good one. Also by tapping on it while the car is running..but that doesnt always work. Diagnose your problem.. 90 on BL is not only way rich, its screaming PROBLEM.. 009's dont run at 90 bl.. unless there is something wrong with the car.

Check to see your fuel pressure isnt at 60 at idle. typical numbers are 40-45 at idle, vacuum line off. 35-40 line on.

Service manual www.helms.com use to carry it..dont know if they still do. They were like 100 bucks.

Again.. do some homework on low bl's.. fix this before changing injectors. if you dont, you'll have new injectors and still be at 90 for bl's. You'll hurt the motor having a tuning issue like this. Especially rite now since its overly rich washing down the cylinders. You oil will need to be changed.. I mean like really frquently, possible once a week..until you have it fixed. Smell it..should not smell like fuel, if it does.. it needs replacing.

keep driving it like this..you'll cuase permanent damage to the motor.

Now go do some homework. hint.. CHIP ..wink wink

 

[89TTA1415]

OK...One other question is where is the ECU located at on the car? I will pull it when I get home and check the oil.

 

[trading t/a]

Razor I'm not knocking your setup nor the advances you've made with alky. The 18psi run was max boost for me. With the exception of a wg problem(shot to 28) it never goes above 20-21. Guess what's in the tank? 116 is what i use, and barring anything there will always be some of it in the tank. If by chance i do use 94 the boost doesn't go past 16. I usually do not drive the car a lot every year(hell it's been down for a while now), and from the time I go to the track until I go back there is most of thetime some 116 left in the tank.

Peace Brutha!

 

[fly89gta]

Razor, as you know I'm considering the heads you have for sale(if/when money allows)

Would you recommend going with ported heads or an alky kit?

I could also run very mildly worked heads and get an alky kit instead of buying the heads...what do you think would work out the best on the street and strip?

 

[89TTA1415]

OK...I pulled the ECU and the chip has R93 on it with an H written in marker behind the R93. The label has a couple of numbers like this:

6

R93H

6 0

It has no other markings. The BL in the car runs at 115 when cold and as soon as it comes to temperature then it starts fluctuating and falls to 90 and stays there. What kind of chip is this and should I look at another chip? I've heard of Jim Testa and Eric at Turbotweak. Razor, Do you burn chips as well? I really apreciate all of the great input so far. I'm going to reset the ECU this week and see if that helps.

 

[89TTA1415]

Well I did some investigating last night and the chip seems to be a Red Armstrong chip but I could not find out specifics on this particular chip. I checked the fuel pressure and it is 38 at idle with the line on and 43 with line off so I think it is fine. The MAF looks new and resistance checks show it is linear throughout the full range of motion so I would assume it is fine too. So now the question is should I just get a new chip for the 009's or replace the 009's with MSD 50#'s and get a chip also? The 009 injectors are only 3 years old as I have the receipt for them. Thanks for all of the help guys.

 

[mark b]

IMHO, in the long run you will be happier with the MSD-50's.

As mentioned, this is not to say you can't get the 009's to work with a good chip burner, but I haven't found anyone unhappy with MSD-50's.

 

[Razor]

.. I bet one doughnut its a Red Armstrong

Man i'm good

Problem is ... is the injector constant programmed into the chip for 009's. Why dont you look up the info for Red Armstrong and give him a call. He may be able to tell you based on the numbers the chip has what it is exactly. its not a bad chip fwiw..

If the chip is for 009's.. then you have to look elsewhere for the problem. Also the injectors have numbers on them, you can search those numbers and verify theyre 009's aka 42.5lb.

Get your data.. then figure how to tackle it. Start on the easy..work from there.

The MAF sensor is one weird animal. Dont take it for granted unless you have swapped it with a known good one. This is the only sure fire test I know off. Three things that everyone who works on there cars should have, 1) spare ECM 2) spare coilpack/ignition module 3) spare GM MAF. The first two are easy to find. The third is getting tougher by the day.

Fly89gta, I'm of the thinking dont take the heads off unless you blow a HG. If they have the factory seal, leave them alone. If you do a lot of street driving, and occassional hammering here and there.. an alky kit makes the car more fun. And if you move up to heads and cam.. its not going to hurt to have it on either. So me.. I do alky first and leave the motor factory sealed.

You do heads first.. and you pop a HG becuase you had it off tune.. you'll wish you had alky.

trading t/a.. no problem bro.. I know you've been through the desert with yours.. I remember your first posts.. hehehe

116 is 7 bucks a gallon here.. 3 tank fulls .. the kit would be paid off.

 

[turbot2496]

So now the question is should I just get a new chip for the 009's or replace the 009's with MSD 50#'s and get a chip also?



You need to figure out your problem before you start buying parts. I know its frustrating but you will be more frustrated if you buy new injectors and a chip and still have the problem. Give Red a call and see what that chip is and if he remembers when he burnt it and what mods the car had on it when he did. See if he thinks that chip could be causing your problem and ,if so, can send you out another one to try for your current combination. I really doubt its your injectors. Its starting to sound like a bad o2 sensor or something to me. When they go bad usually the car will be pig rich. Sometimes they set a code and sometimes they don't. Give Red a call and see what he thinks about your problem. He will definatly lead you in the right direction. Don't just start throwing money at the car to solve this problem or you might be sorry. Razor has given you some excellent advice. You should go over to gnttype.org and do a search under low blm's and see all the things that would cause this so you can do some checking. Do some research and get smart. You've got some things to check out before you start blaming it on the injectors. Good Luck.

 

[turbot2496]

Damn your good Razor. You must have posted that while I was typing. Sorry for basically repeating Razors post. You Da man.

Hey Razor... You can lead a trading t/a to alcohol but you can't make him drink

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by turbot2496
Damn your good Razor. You must have posted that while I was typing. Sorry for basically repeating Razors post. You Da man.

Hey Razor... You can lead a trading t/a to alcohol but you can't make him drink