Bigger/Wider rims, do you have this problem, called tracking

BLACK DEATH DSR

New Member
I am about to put 16x8 wheels on my car and I am going to put 245-5016s in the front and 255-50-16 on the rear. I will be buying 17x8 & 9s in the future. Here is my question to all that have 8" rims or wider at the moment and are running 16" wheels or bigger. Do you have a problem with your car, while you are driving, that it pulls in a direction. Its like this, on my 99 TA with 17x9s all the way around and 275 tires, it will pull towards the left or the right depending on how rough the street is when I am driving down the road. If I am changing lanes and the road has grooves, I have to hold onto the wheel with both hands because it will pull the car hard to the left or the right. If it is smooth it doesnt pull at all, but when you go down a street that has grooves in it where most tires ride on, it will pull in a direction left or right. On the Fbody boards they called it tracking. They say it is the tires and not the width of the rim that is the problem. Does anyone have this problem with their Regal? I think the problem will be with 17" wheels or bigger.
 
BLACK DEATH DSR said:
...while you are driving, that it pulls in a direction it will pull towards the left or the right depending on how rough the street is when I am driving down the road...

What suspension modifications do you have? If I understand you correctly, this phenomenon is called "bump steer". Very basically, bump steer is how much and in which direction the toe changes during all suspension travels. Its the location of the tie rods in relation to the upper and lower control arms.

Changing to a wider tire will affect the scrub radius thus changing the front swing arm length and thus giving you a change in static and dynamic roll center. A tire size increase of as little as 10 mm has drastic effects on the overall geometry of the suspension system.

Bump steer will be different for a front steer vs. a rear steer car.

Experiment by adding a spacer at the tie rod pivot on the knuckle. Leave the tie rod pivot on the frame untouched.

Contact Baer Racing and see if they have a direct application. A lot of circle track guys offer a replacement of the stock tie rod with a longer tie rod joint which can be bolted in with modified geomentry.

HTH
 
I believe the problem is called "tramming". It's happens when wide tires get "stuck" in the grooves/ruts created by transports. When you change lanes the tires grabbing the groove/rut will yank the wheel right out of your hand. I expect the shorter the sidewall, the more severe the yank is.
 
Browndog said:
I believe the problem is called "tramming". It's happens when wide tires get "stuck" in the grooves/ruts created by transports. When you change lanes the tires grabbing the groove/rut will yank the wheel right out of your hand. I expect the shorter the sidewall, the more severe the yank is.

I do not think it is bump steer that I am talking about. Your suspension does not have to travel up & down to do what i am talking about.

This is exactly what I am talking about. My regal does not do it at the present time with the 215s in the front on 15x7 wheels. Now my 99 TA with the stock suspension does this all the time. I am going to put 16x8s on the car soon and in the future upgrade to 17s and i am wondering if people have this problem with their GN as the fbody cars do with 17x9s all the way around.

So my question is to all that have a Regal with wider rims & tires all the way around or wider than stock, do you have this problem. It will not happen all the time unless the street has grooves in it. If you do not know what i am talking about, try to drive a friends Fbody with 17x9s on all fours and maybe you will see what i am talking about.
 
BLACK DEATH DSR said:
Do you have a problem with your car, while you are driving, that it pulls in a direction. Its like this, on my 99 TA with 17x9s all the way around and 275 tires, it will pull towards the left or the right depending on how rough the street is when I am driving down the road. If I am changing lanes and the road has grooves, I have to hold onto the wheel with both hands because it will pull the car hard to the left or the right.

Bad roads, are obviously bad roads. Larger tires will magnify the grooving problem. So do worn front end parts, ball joints, tie rod ends, cross link, A-arm bushings.

I have 17x9, 275/40 fronts, and 285/40s. Not a hint of lane tracking, but everything is in excellent condition.
 
My front end on the Buick is new also. I just didnt want to buy new rims and have the same problem as I do on the TA. The TA front suspension is perfect per the guy that aligned it.
 
i don't have a problem at all with 17x9.5s and 315s in the rear. My friend with 17x10s and 285s did though. Not sure how it works but he replaced his shocks with Bilsteins and the problem has all but gone away.
 
I know all too well about tracking. I have driven a WRX, STi, EVO, XKR, GN, and a GN with 17x7's up front, and 17x8's up front. The STi, EVO, and XKR are horrible with tracking all over the place. The GN's are not bad at all even with 17x7 wheels with very sticky tires. I can drive the GN hands free/with a knee and not worry. The others (EVO, STi, XKR) were 10 and 2 or doom.
 
I have 17x8's and 245/45's. Mine does tramm. It is a pita on rough/very worn pavement but it is pretty managable otherwise. Pavement around here is so bad that the car did it some with 225/60 15's on the stock rims. :D
 
To answer your question, yes. There is a bit more tracking from going from the 215/65R-15 OEM size tires to the 245/50R-16 fr. and 255/50R-16 rr. It's not bad. As noted in one the other posts one handed steering is no problem.
 
Have the Alignment shop put in as much Positive caster as they can. This will all but eliminate this problem.

I have 255/50's on the front of my Pontiac 2+2 and have driven it about 500 miles between 120 and 170 mph and don't have any tramlining, even on Texas asphalt roads with 18 wheeler ruts melted into them.

The secret is 4 degrees of positive caster.
 
Hmmmmm, i just hate to go to the alignment shop and tell them to do it and they dont. Some shops are worthless. I will put the rims on and see what happens. I will let you all know. it may be a month or so because I still need to paint the rims.
 
The Caster problem is easy to visualize.

The farther rearward the contact patch of the tire is in relation to the spindle axis, the straighter the car will track.

Because our cars came with tall section tires from the factory, the factory settings for caster are low angles, which promotes light steering when parking and heavier steering at highway speeds (as the contact patch deflects rearward at speed)

A taller section tire (like a 65) will have a contact patch that deflects rearward more at speed, than a short section tire (like a 50). If you put a short section tire on a car with a small caster angle, the contact patch can be IN FRONT of the spindle axis at low speeds making the car darty at low speeds and because they do not deflect rearward as much as a tall section tire, it may stay darty.
 
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