Blowing Smoke! need HELP please

[YLDMAN]

FYI- 2nd owner 87GN. Bought it bone stock w/58k original. Now it has 63k. I think I have added just about every bolt-on part available for the GN to include a TA49. The car has run flawlessly until now. Best E.T. of 12.202 @ 5600ft. elevation.

Just added CHAMPION Racing Heads and REED 205/205 cam. After install the car started blowing blue smoke (bad) out of the tailpipes. Pulled the plugs and found oil on them. I was told I probably had a bad intake seal and was sucking air. So I replaced the intake gasket and checked all vac lines (still smokin). Ran a compression test (avg 115 per cyl) and a balance test (avg 10-12% per cyl). I was told these results were good. Then I was told to check the intake/exhaust sides of the turbo for oil, no problem. Next, was to check the heads for the valve seals, good there too. Now I am being told to replace the intake gasket (2nd time) with a FELPRO gasket instead of the stock one. Meanwhile, I'm spending a fortune in troubleshooting the problem.

I have been getting all these instructions from Jay @ Jay'sGN and Tom @ CHAMPION. The work has been done by a certified GM mechanic. According to Jay and Tom, the oil couldn't be coming from the heads, but I never had the problem before
I would appreciate any input regarding my situation. Thanks.

 

[John Purdom]

I feel your pain, as I am going thru exactly the same thing at the moment, and been thru much of what you are describing in attempted fixes. Have cut way back on the smoke simply by plugging off the PCV, but feel this is a bandaid, and know that I will have to closely monitor the oil and change much more frequently. My car gets very few cruising miles tho. I have iron heads, but have read many threads on problems with valve guides in GN1's so you might search on that. Do you have a PCV sys?

If you search on "smoke" and other related headings, you will find many others with this problem, several suggested fixes, much general frustration. Time marches on tho, so I hope those of you that have found a long term solution will share. Good luck.

 

[YLDMAN]

Thanks for your response man. I didn't know this was such a BIG topic. But I just had another mechanic look at it today. He said it MUST be coming through the valve seals, with as much oil that is on my plugs. I looked at the plugs he pulled after running the car for about 20 seconds and they were literally dripping with oil. I am pretty torqued, because I just spent $1200 for those heads, not to mention another $500 in trying to diagnose the problem, and now it looks like it's going to cost another $500 to repeat the process in replacing those seals and getting the heads cleaned up. Oh well, live and learn. Maybe someone else might benefit from my BAD experience.

 

[1badTTA]

Did you get the heads new or used? If used I would suggest new umbrella seals (temp) and if that helps new guides. HTH

 

[YLDMAN]

I got them NEW. It should have all new seals?? Bronze valve guides. But I am going to replace the umbrella seals and the FELPRO gasket anyway. I just don't see any other solution with that much oil on the plugs. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Jimn8or]

OK...what else aren't you telling us. The smoke/oil is coming from somewhere obviously. Umbrella seals are for girls, I doubt that GN1's came with 'em. Fel-Pro posi-lock teflon seals require machining to .500" on the guides and work extremely well, although on turbo aplications temps may exceed limits. Let's leave the valve seals alone for a second...Where did the TA-49 come from? Is it new? Was it sitting under someone's bed for 3 years before it was installed? Is the TB/up-pipe coated in oil? Any chance a bunch of sh!t entered the cylinders while the heads were off and the block was scraped?..meaning rings? My money is on the turbo as the source. It is friggen near impossible from a B.Board and not being there, to diagnose, but you have poured a ton of $$$ into this and the answer has to be right infront of you. The part that you instantly rule out as the source...generally is the problem. Not trying to pee on your Cornflakes at all, only offering help/suggestions.
HTH
Jim

 

[YLDMAN]

Originally posted by Jimn8or
OK...what else aren't you telling us. The smoke/oil is coming from somewhere obviously. Umbrella seals are for girls, I doubt that GN1's came with 'em. Fel-Pro posi-lock teflon seals require machining to .500" on the guides and work extremely well, although on turbo aplications temps may exceed limits. Let's leave the valve seals alone for a second...Where did the TA-49 come from? Is it new? Was it sitting under someone's bed for 3 years before it was installed? Is the TB/up-pipe coated in oil? Any chance a bunch of sh!t entered the cylinders while the heads were off and the block was scraped?..meaning rings? My money is on the turbo as the source. It is friggen near impossible from a B.Board and not being there, to diagnose, but you have poured a ton of $$$ into this and the answer has to be right infront of you. The part that you instantly rule out as the source...generally is the problem. Not trying to pee on your Cornflakes at all, only offering help/suggestions.
HTH
Jim

I bought the TA49 new from Jay'sGN... No oil TB/up-pipe... And to my knowledge, when the heads were being installed the mechanic (whom has a good rep for good work) took care in the process... And the "experts", Jay & Tom (previously mentioned) are the ones who have ruled out the heads as being the source.

And I sincerely appreciate your offering help/suggestions. Does this help any? BTW, the car ran perfectly prior to the heads being put on.

 

[moose]

I'm like the other guy, I would think with that much smoke it would be the Turbo. The turbo you had on the car last, Was it bad or did you just upgrade? If it was bad you could have an intercooler full of OIL still blowing it into the intake out of the intercooler. I would double check the up pipe and probably go ahead and wash out the intercooler while I was at it just for good measure. This is a simple thing to do and might very well surprise you if that's the problem. Won't cost you anything to do that but a little time.

 

[moose]

I just noticed you said the car was flawless with the turbo that is on it now, How long have you run this turbo? If it's been on it a while it could be that it has gone bad right when the head's were changed, I know that sound's far fetched but it is possible, If it's not the turbo it would have to be bad head work or bad mechanic's, Don't mean to degrade or talk bad about anyone but let's face the fact's,#1- The car ran fine before the head's were replaced,#2- Has to be bad headwork, #3- Or bad mechanic work,#4- Can't blame the head gasket's for it because they didn't put themselve's on!!

 

[YLDMAN]

Originally posted by moose
I'm like the other guy, I would think with that much smoke it would be the Turbo. The turbo you had on the car last, Was it bad or did you just upgrade? If it was bad you could have an intercooler full of OIL still blowing it into the intake out of the intercooler. I would double check the up pipe and probably go ahead and wash out the intercooler while I was at it just for good measure. This is a simple thing to do and might very well surprise you if that's the problem. Won't cost you anything to do that but a little time.

The stock turbo was just fine. Ran like a champ! Just wanted to upgrade. I just added the NEW IC (maybe 100 miles on it now), after I added the NEW turbo (maybe 2,000 miles on it now), and just before I added the NEW heads (maybe 50 miles now).

Maybe the timeline will help. The car ran FLAWLESSLY before I put the heads on. IMMEDIATELY after the heads/cam/lifters were installed the car was smoking. I haven't even driven it more than 50 miles yet since the install. But I will consider your theory since this is you're hunch and I am the one asking for help. Let me ask you guys, if the turbo is the problem, wouldn't there be oil either before or after the turbo?? And if it were the turbo, how would that explain the oil dripping from my plugs after running the car for 20 seconds @ idle?

 

[YLDMAN]

I was a little slow in my response. he-he

 

[moose]

Man, If you have oil dripping from all the plug's, I would take a "WILD UNEDUCATED GUESS" and say it is very likely that the guide's were screwed up at the factory somehow? My turbo went bad on mine and it only has 79,000 miles on it and it smoked AWFUL! But, My plug's weren't dripping with oil. I put a new turbo on and washed out the intercooler and it stopped all smoke . I was hoping for your sake it was only the turbo but it look's like it's probably not, Sorry.

 

[moose]

Or Seal's?

 

[YLDMAN]

Well thanks moose for your input. I will let you know the outcome. I was really hoping that some GN guru or grandmaster wizard mechanic would see ALL the details and tell me, "Well obviously your problem is...." and save me alot more time and money. In light of what you guys have said, I am going to double check the up-pipe before repeating the head install process again, at the request of Tom @ CHAMPION. And if that doesn't work, I guess I am going to have to have a long talk with Tom about exchanging these heads and determine if I should be reimbursed for all the $$$ invested in labor and excess parts that has been spent trying diagnos the problem, only to find out it's in the HEADS after all.

Thanks again man. And if there's anyone out there that can give me relative expert advice I would sure like to hear from you. And if anyone has got these same heads or dealt with Tom @ CHAMPION before. Thanks.

 

[moose]

Good Luck.

 

[crazygn]

did you ever find the problem, 4 of the 6 plug in my car are soaked in oil now and cant seem to find out why