I was getting on my car WOT and was going up in the gears for about 10 sec. or so at 22# of boost then I heard a pshh pshh noise (about 3 of the noises in about 1 sec.) right before I let off the gas. I don't know what the rpm's were. I looked at the scanmaster and it showed 19 deg of timing retard. It all still runs good no noise still has power, but my boost gauge now only goes up to 17# instead of 22# like it always have before always 22#. I now have some oil between my intake and valve cover. I cleaned off the oil and haven't seen it again. I don't know if its a head gasket or just nothing. It doesn't over heat, blow oil or any smoke out exhaust, or use water or oil. I was planning on replacing the heads with some more of a performance type head any ways. What are the ways to check for a bad head gasket. Is the only way a leak down test. If head gasket is bad does the block need to be redecked. How much damage do you think that 19 deg. of timing retard did to the engine.
blown head gasket? 19 deg. timing retard
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22# ? are you running alky or race gas ?
whats your combo ?
what intercooler, heads, turbo, injectors, chip,
what headgaskets .
im guessing theres no coolant in the oil
generally if you are on the throttle in third gear and you see kr its real and you had better lift , 19* KR is bad especially at that level
sounds like you may have lifted the head between the center bolts at cyl4 or cyl3 and pushed past them which blew combustion gas into the valley and pushed oil out of the breathers and now the gaskets are hurt and wont hold the boost level without pushing past the gasket fire ring
and 10 sec at 22 im not surprised things fell apart , how fast do you think you were going ?
the scanmaster would have recorded the highest kr lowest o2 and the mph each occurred , what was the rest of the recorded data ?
you can do a compression test and see what you get , if you find an abnormally low cylinder plan on pulling the heads but if it lifted it may not show the leak at compression test pressures
whats your combo ?
what intercooler, heads, turbo, injectors, chip,
what headgaskets .
im guessing theres no coolant in the oil
generally if you are on the throttle in third gear and you see kr its real and you had better lift , 19* KR is bad especially at that level
sounds like you may have lifted the head between the center bolts at cyl4 or cyl3 and pushed past them which blew combustion gas into the valley and pushed oil out of the breathers and now the gaskets are hurt and wont hold the boost level without pushing past the gasket fire ring
and 10 sec at 22 im not surprised things fell apart , how fast do you think you were going ?
the scanmaster would have recorded the highest kr lowest o2 and the mph each occurred , what was the rest of the recorded data ?
you can do a compression test and see what you get , if you find an abnormally low cylinder plan on pulling the heads but if it lifted it may not show the leak at compression test pressures
check all your vac hoses.
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did a little looking and found this post by him on 6-10-11
hes on e85 and he had an issue back then at 18psi and kept pushing ...
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qoute My 87 gn runs off e85 has 60# injectors, ta 49 turbo, 18# of boost, walbro 340 fuel pump with hot wire kit, everything else is pretty much stock. I can take off and go threw all the gears without any timing retard until I'm in overdrive and when I'm around 100 mph I'll start getting timing retard on my scanmaster. Its pretty high at 4.5 and thats the only time I get it. I don't know what my fuel pressure is at under boost, but while idling the gauge on my fuel rail reads 36#. The temp outside was only 68 wasn't too hot if that helps.
hes on e85 and he had an issue back then at 18psi and kept pushing ...
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qoute My 87 gn runs off e85 has 60# injectors, ta 49 turbo, 18# of boost, walbro 340 fuel pump with hot wire kit, everything else is pretty much stock. I can take off and go threw all the gears without any timing retard until I'm in overdrive and when I'm around 100 mph I'll start getting timing retard on my scanmaster. Its pretty high at 4.5 and thats the only time I get it. I don't know what my fuel pressure is at under boost, but while idling the gauge on my fuel rail reads 36#. The temp outside was only 68 wasn't too hot if that helps.
more than likely if you were knocking in third on ethanol you either did hurt it or will....detonation on e-85 is no good....and if you wont be paitient enough to figure out the knock issues then sell the car to someone who wont hurt it...:biggrin:
That's what I'm thinking. 22 psi with a single walbro, 60# injectors on e85?? That has got to be right at the edge if not over. If his base fp is at 42 with line off, plus 22 psi of boost, that should put him ate 64 psi fuel pressure. Not sure a single walbro can flow that much fuel at that psi. I'm just guessing though because I've never tried That combo out.
I'm running 43# of fuel pressure with line off and 36# with the line on. I have stock ported heads with the stock valves, stock cam, stock bottom end with 1800 miles with better head and rod bolts and better pistons then stock, stock intercooler, stock upper and lower intake manifold, e85 chip turbotweak, 60# injectors, don't know part number on felpro head gaskets, welbro 340 fuel pump with hot wire kit, cold air intake, ta 49 turbo, stock throttle body, 2800 stall, stock down pipe. No oil in water or water in oil. Car does still run great just can only build 17# of boost now.
I did have a problem before with knock only at high speeds (over 100) in overdrive at 4.5 deg. of knock retard. (That was at 22# of boost not the 18# that I put in my last thread. I have always had it at 22# for a year now.) I added 2% of fuel at wot and now I have no knock. The only time I had knock before it was .4 deg. but that was because I had the a/c on when I got on it. I have adjusted it to 25# of boost before when I was adjusting it. I started out low and went up to 25# and still didn't have any knock, o2's was always around 780 but I only was at wot in first and second gear not third and forth gear. I adjusted it back down to 22# I felt that was a safe place till I had this problem.
I get on these sites to ask for advise and I do appreciate the advise since where I live no one has these cars and no one knows what to do with these types of cars. I learn by trying something and asking questions. I don't need people telling me that I'm hurting my car and that I should get rid of it. The body and interior is in great shape and the original engine is in the garage with the original parts still. I don't tell you what to do with your car I'm just asking for advise to keep this from happening.
I would like my car to be fast, any kid in there junkstang or camaro that they thinks its fast or any other V8 I want to be able to smoke them. I want the grand national to be respected, don't want some one running around bragging that they just beat a grand national, I will only be taking it to the track two or three times a year at the most. The main thing is respect. My plan was to install after market bigger valve heads (1.77 and 1.6) a roller cam (unless a roller is overboard), bigger intercooler, port matched intake, bigger throttle body, 3" down pipe. I would like to keep the 2800 stall, e85 and the ta 49 turbo. If I could get some advise on what would be the best size and type of cam, heads and so on for what I plan on doing unless I need to start another thread.
I did have a problem before with knock only at high speeds (over 100) in overdrive at 4.5 deg. of knock retard. (That was at 22# of boost not the 18# that I put in my last thread. I have always had it at 22# for a year now.) I added 2% of fuel at wot and now I have no knock. The only time I had knock before it was .4 deg. but that was because I had the a/c on when I got on it. I have adjusted it to 25# of boost before when I was adjusting it. I started out low and went up to 25# and still didn't have any knock, o2's was always around 780 but I only was at wot in first and second gear not third and forth gear. I adjusted it back down to 22# I felt that was a safe place till I had this problem.
I get on these sites to ask for advise and I do appreciate the advise since where I live no one has these cars and no one knows what to do with these types of cars. I learn by trying something and asking questions. I don't need people telling me that I'm hurting my car and that I should get rid of it. The body and interior is in great shape and the original engine is in the garage with the original parts still. I don't tell you what to do with your car I'm just asking for advise to keep this from happening.
I would like my car to be fast, any kid in there junkstang or camaro that they thinks its fast or any other V8 I want to be able to smoke them. I want the grand national to be respected, don't want some one running around bragging that they just beat a grand national, I will only be taking it to the track two or three times a year at the most. The main thing is respect. My plan was to install after market bigger valve heads (1.77 and 1.6) a roller cam (unless a roller is overboard), bigger intercooler, port matched intake, bigger throttle body, 3" down pipe. I would like to keep the 2800 stall, e85 and the ta 49 turbo. If I could get some advise on what would be the best size and type of cam, heads and so on for what I plan on doing unless I need to start another thread.
I would do a leakdown test. I feel very sure you have blown a headgasket.
It may have blown in a place where you aren't getting coolant issues. 19 degrees is way to much. She won't hold together. Sorry for the bad news. Fuel systems are so important on these cars. I'm in the process of doing a complete upgrade. Expenseive but I will never worry about it again for a long time. You ran lean and the result was bad. Heck most of us have done it a time or two!!
It may have blown in a place where you aren't getting coolant issues. 19 degrees is way to much. She won't hold together. Sorry for the bad news. Fuel systems are so important on these cars. I'm in the process of doing a complete upgrade. Expenseive but I will never worry about it again for a long time. You ran lean and the result was bad. Heck most of us have done it a time or two!!
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Start here.....
"I don't know what my fuel pressure is at under boost"...........
"I don't know what my fuel pressure is at under boost"...........
Phoneguy
Cometic HG stress tester
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Better be doing a quick compression test. Just my opinion.
Bryan
Bryan
I did a compression check for some reason all the cylinders were at 60 I thought it should be higher like 140 or so. I pulled all the plugs and cranked the engine over a few times and thats what the gauge says.
I don't have a fuel pressure gauge other then the one on the fuel rail. I know now I need one to read the fuel pressure under boost. Didn't know how important it was till now. I'm getting an electric one so I can have it in my gauge pod and I can watch it all the time. What other type of gauges are needed with these type of cars.
I don't have a fuel pressure gauge other then the one on the fuel rail. I know now I need one to read the fuel pressure under boost. Didn't know how important it was till now. I'm getting an electric one so I can have it in my gauge pod and I can watch it all the time. What other type of gauges are needed with these type of cars.
Phoneguy
Cometic HG stress tester
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60 is not good !!! Mine read 165 (at least they did before my last incident. )
Standard gauges would be oil pres,fuel pres, water temp, vac/boost, knock sensor,
Additional gauges, tach, trans temp,
)Standard gauges would be oil pres,fuel pres, water temp, vac/boost, knock sensor,
Additional gauges, tach, trans temp,
60 is not good !!! Mine read 165 (at least they did before my last incident.
I know it should be reading more, but why are they all reading the same, not all the cylinders can be leaking the same. If rings went bad I would be using, burning oil and I don't have that. Maybe I did something wrong or the gauge is bad. Shouldn't it be reading all over the place?
Another thing that I forgot to mention is when I did the compression test I looked at the tops of all the pistons, they all looked good except number 3 the top of the piston was yellow. I put a q-tip in there and it was e85 fuel not burnt. I checked my spark and there wasn't any. I wiggled the plug wire at the coil and it started to work. Do you think that this might have been the reason for such a high knock retard. Even when that cylinder wasn't getting spark it still seem to run good.
Not to sound stupid, but why a knock sensor can't you just look at the scanmaster or is that too late. I guess if I was even looking at it I wouldn't of had this problem. I do need a tach that would help alot.
I had an injector go out. I blew the headgasket. I had a quick 15 degrees of knock. I couldn't let out fast enough!! Things happen fast. Odd that all the cylinders had 60. There should have been a little differance somewhere. Is the gauge a known good one? I would pull the heads now. You going to sooner or later. I can promise you are. I know it's bad news but most of us would have done been in there to see whats going on. We are good engine pullers on this site.:biggrin:
Yes I had it at wot when cranking. This Saturday I'm going to try a different gauge. I will have to get a different one to see if mine just doesn't work.
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