Body bushings: why so many part #'s?

So to install the missing GNX bushings requires lifting the body off the frame right?


I have to agree with UNGN about replacing the uppers. I looked at lifting the body to replace the top bushings and I've decided against it. The uppers I can see look good and it's an all day job from what others say.

TK
 
Originally posted by cool 84
Looking at the diagram all the upper bushings look the same. Is the only difference the stiffness? If so, what's the stiffest stock upper bushing?

My car is a rattle trap, that's why I've added every brace made and done all the suspension work and everything I can think of to tighten the car up. Looking at my bushings, they are almost non-existant, even the uppers. I have a feeling this is where a lot of the squeeks and rattles are coming from. If I'm going to replace them I might as well do a slight upgrade.


Anyone?
 
Q about aftermarket kits

OK, I know Energy Suspensions has a kit. I'm assuming this kit is complete and has ALL the "missing" "GNX bushings" as well, right?

What other companies offer complete kits? Does PST? Globoal West? Anybody else?
 
Just replaced all of mine...

Went with the poly's on the T cause it's not a daily driver and want to road race a little.:D It wasn't too bad, but I squirted penetrant up at the nuts for a couple days while they were shipping. Removed bumpers, made a tool like on gnttype, don't raise left side up very high (just enough to get the old one out and new one in) to save the power steering pump. Glad, VERY GLAD I did them all, because the uppers vere in horrible shape.(didn't look too bad until I got them out:eek: ) Rides nice and tight now(Keep in mind NOT a daily driver though)

The #3 upper bushing is completely different than the other uppers. It has a spacer that fits through it. All the others were similar(I said SIMILAR, not the SAME)

I replaced a few bolts (because of rust) with some grade 8 hardware store bolts too.

Now off to research the rubber one's for the stock GN.
 
As I stated before I used the Energy Suspensions kit and it did not change the way my car rides. I use my car everyday in the summer on it rides nice, tightened the car up very nicely. I replaced the upper and the lower mounts with new bolts and strengthened up some of the mount pockets while I was at it. Car sits nice and level with no leaning to the left or right. I am pleased with the ES kit. Thats just my opinion though.
 
Originally posted by lyonsd


County, not country. Alabama is Georgia's biggest county, located on the west side of the state.

good one:eek: :eek:, while were on the subject, has anyone else broke a body bolt trying to get them out? I'm in the process of changing the 4 missing lowers and I broke the bolt to #5, I think. Any ideas how to get it out?:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by SUFFRN6
As I stated before I used the Energy Suspensions kit and it did not change the way my car rides. I replaced the upper and the lower mounts with new bolts and strengthened up some of the mount pockets while I was at it.

Did the kit come with the new bolts, or did you purchase them separately? thanks.
 
lyonsd :
The energysuspension poly kit comes with all washers and spacers, but doesn't come with bolts. They are available at your local hardware store.

Pats-GN:
I'm in the process of changing the 4 missing lowers and I broke the bolt to #5, I think. Any ideas how to get it out?

If you broke the bolt off, you still might get ahold of the remaining part with some vise grips. If you broke the nut loose, you're not gonna have fun.:mad: It's just a nut welded to the body. I've read that the only way to get to the nut is to cut/drill a hole through the body from the inside. And then get some tool or devise on it to loosen up the bolt.

HTH, CaptRob
 
Just installed the missing body mounts with the pinks.

What a difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I just change mine, and the only two missing were on the passenger side, all the lowers on the drivers side were there. Anybody elses regal like mine?

pat
 
One thing of interest is my KB seat brace came with the #5 bushings. Haven't put them in yet because I'm probably going with the polys. My biggest concern is not harshness but road noise. I hate road noise.
 
I was missing two on each side and the rear-most two. 6 total.

Terry

86 T-Type

<edited to look more literate>
 
Hi Folks,

May I suggest you try a search on this and related topics? There are probably hundreds of posts relating to bushings, and I think you'll find these to be very useful.

I've experimented with GM's stock high-loss OEM bushings, polyurethane, and delrin at virtually every bushing location on the car. (I never tried aluminum, due to the spontaneous electrolysis it creates where it contacts steel.)

In general, the factory's high-loss bushings work best to isolate the frame from the body to create a smooth ride. Polyurethane is not very lossy, and therefore efficiently transmits frame/suspension resonances to the cabin. In a word, it can create a very jiggly (although admittedly "stiff") ride. It's not comfortable on the street, I think - especially if you have low-profile tires and polyurethane bushings in the suspension to begin with, as I would think is quite likely for many readers here. On the other hand, with stock tires and stock suspension, the polyurethane body bushings may work well, although I wouldn't know as I've never tried this particular combination.

The factory bushings excel at isolating frame/suspension deflections and resonances from reaching the cabin. But the flip-side of this characteristic is that the frame (which is very floppy to begin with as it was designed by GM,) therefore derives little stiffness from the body. This results in a pronounced sensation of vagueness of handling and looseness, particularly in the front end (added triangulated braces notwithstanding.)

After many years of experimentation, I've found the following offer the best combination of ride comfort and effective frame/body coupling for crisp, predictable handling, with low-profile tires, and stiff suspension bushings:

1.) Radiator support: hard coupling using delrin bushings.
2.) Firewall bushings back to penultimate rear bushings: stock,
(but stiffest) rubber bushings, top/bottom all, plus "missing"
axle bump bushing.
3.) Rear-most bushings: polyurethane.

The biggest departure from traditional approaches is the extremely stiff front bushing. The difference this one trick makes is profound. Front-end vertical bending stiffness nearly * triples * as a result, and steering will be much more precise than one would believe possible with these cars! If one most compromise here, then the next step down is to use polyurethane, but the degradation is noticeable, manifested in a partial return of front-end "jiggliness."

Hope this is helpful.

Best,
MAP
 
Now that is the kind of info I've been looking for. Thanks very much. My only question is what is the delrin bushing and where can I buy it?
 
Map, I don't think any of the posts have been as precise as yours. The fronts are easy to change so I think I'll play with some delrin in there.
 
Delrin bushings

Hi Cool 84,

I forgot to include that information in the post - thanks for pointing it out. Delrin is a DuPont acetal plastic with good machining properties and wear characteristics (not that that matters in a bushing! You can use PVC, or any other stiff plastic, if you want.) The bushings were a home-brew; I'm not aware of anyone that markets these specifically for our cars. But making them is easy: I used three 1/2"-thick plates, approximately 2-1/2" by 4" each. Two go between the frame and the underside of the radiator support, and one goes on top. If I remember correctly, a 1/2" clearance hole is sufficient for the mounting bolt. Since the frame in this area is welded from two C-section channels, you'll need to make a 1/8"-thick shim of some 2" by 2" with the same clearance hole, so the two underside Delrin plates have a flat surface to sit on. On the top of the Delrin plate that sits on top of the radiator support, use a beefy fender washer under the mounting bolt nut to distribute the clamping load well.

Best,
MAP
 
Sounds easy enough. Thanks a lot. I've got the body off the frame right now, just waiting to put bushings in.
 
MAP

Hi Folks,

Please write us back about know how it goes for you with the Delrin bushings up front!

About the bushings I described: I think it's important to "tuck" the plates as close as possible to the rectangular radiator-opening perimeter of the radiator support, so as to tie-in the bushing load as closely as possible to the strongest part of this structure. The long axis of the bushing plates should run perpendicular to the car's centerline. I've never taken any measurements, but I'm sure that these bushings transmit a lot of stress as the car "works" over road bumps - certainly more than the soft stock bushings.

To explain a little more: again, the car's frame needs all of the stiffness it can derive from coupling to the car body. Making the coupling rigid at the frame ends does this well, while minimizing the transmission of NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) to the cabin. Using stiff bushings immediately under the cabin also helps the frame, but here the NVH coupling is *far* more noticeably perceived in the cabin. Using the soft stock bushings under the cabin, with stiff bushings at the car ends, I think strikes the best compromise overall.

Here are some numbers: with the car supported on jack stands directly under the firewall bushing locations, and with * no * front bushings installed (so that the frame and body are completely decoupled forward of the firewall,) the frame has 2.8 times the bending compliance of the body, measured at the front bumper! Clearly, most of the front-end's vertical stiffness comes from the body, not the frame. With the soft front bushings installed, the frame has about 2.5 times the compliance of the body alone. With the stiff front bushings installed - the frame has 0.8 times the compliance of the body alone - which amounts to a net tripling of vertical front-end frame stiffness! Of course, the front-end's stiffness is improved in other modes too. But the immediate impression is one of much-improved steering precision and stability - it goes exactly where you point it. The difference is even more apparent when traveling over bumps.

One caution: if you try this approach, make sure that the diagonal tubing stiffeners which join the top of the radiator support, to the inner middle section of each fender, are installed.

Another caution: since the transmission of stress is increased to virtually all parts of the body, watch the normal "weak" points: the tops of the "A" and "B" pillars. If any cracks develop, swap the bushings back to the originals pronto. I've never had any problems here - but better safe than sorry. Thanks!

Best,
MAP
 
cool 84 or anyone else with a KB brace, are the GNX bushings that you got with your KB brace part #14032558, the reason I ask is a few years ago I bought a Regal which had the KB brace installed by the then owner and he gave me the bushings that came with the brace which were no.14032558. According to the GNTTYPE site though, the GNX bushings are no.488610 which is what I had previously ordered and installed instead, I would guess that the 488610's are 3/8" - 1/2" taller than the KB bushings.:cool:

BTW, KB is in reference to Bell and not Bill.;)
 
Got one right in front of me. It's pink with the #14032558. Are these the wrong ones, or are they stiffer or softer than the correct one?
 
Top