Books about these cars

[reaper68]

Just wondering if anyone can point me to good books, manuals, etc about the Grand national and turbo t's. Let me know I would like as information as possible about them.

 

[SFITurbo]

Best and most current is on the web....
Buick Regal Links, Gran Sport, GS, GN, GNX, Grand National, Skylark, BOP, Buick Musclecars, Mid-size, A-Bodies, W-Bodies
http://turbobuicks.com/forums/index.php
Vortex Turbo Buick Performance
Turbo Regal Web Site

 

["Turbo-T"]

A book I like is "Guide to Buick 1978-1987 The GN Facts And Figures Book". By Steven L Dove. Kirbans sells them.

 

[reaper68]

Thanks guys I purchased a couple of them. I'm basically trying to get all the background I can on them so when I purchase one next summer I have all the information I can get. Hopefully between this site and the others I can get one put together that will run better than my 05 gto

 

[toofastforyou]

One of the best books available to Turbo Buick owners is "Kirban's Guide to 1986 and 1987 Buick Turbo Regals" written of course by Dennis kirban. It contains valuable info about decals and emblems placement, has some chapters on engine compartment, interiors, brakes suspension and exhaust, astro roofs, t-tops, trunk area, exterior, etc...

It even has a special "performance ideas from turbo experts" section in which there's an article about....ME ! :biggrin: :biggrin: (in the Dynotech section...)

...but seriously, it's a book that no Turbobuick owned should be without.

Claude.

 

[toofastforyou]

One of the best books available to Turbo Buick owners is "Kirban's Guide to 1986 and 1987 Buick Turbo Regals" written of course by Dennis kirban. It contains valuable info about decals and emblems placement, has some chapters on engine compartment, interiors, brakes suspension and exhaust, astro roofs, t-tops, trunk area, exterior, etc...

It even has a special "performance ideas from turbo experts" section in which there's an article about....ME ! :biggrin: :biggrin: (in the Dynotech section...)

...but seriously, it's a book that no Turbobuick owner should be without.

Claude.

 

[Rauder]

Are there any books that shows assembly line photos or old photos when these cars were made back in 87.

 

["Turbo-T"]

The book I mentioned does show pics and tells the story of the last Grand National ever built, on December 11 1987. Some of the assembly workers even had mullets. :biggrin:

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Thanks guys I purchased a couple of them. I'm basically trying to get all the background I can on them so when I purchase one next summer I have all the information I can get. Hopefully between this site and the others I can get one put together that will run better than my 05 gto

Might want to buy one before Fast-n-Furious 4 comes out, or all the 100k+ mile beaters will be priced like the Supras are now.

 

[reaper68]

Yeah I thought about that with the F&F 4 that would seriously piss me off if a bunch of idiots buy all the GN and Turbo T's I've been saving up money to buy one of these things and do it right for a while now and with my luck it will jump just like the supras did

 

[turbofish38]

One of the best books available to Turbo Buick owners is "Kirban's Guide to 1986 and 1987 Buick Turbo Regals" written of course by Dennis kirban.

I have this book in my collection and it's full of incorrect facts. I find the Steven Dove books are a better choice because it's "just the facts" with out the opinion and conjecture of DK. Just because you've sold many a TR and have a company that sells parts doesn't make you the number one authority. Maybe if DK spent more time researching his facts than I'd have a different opinion of his books. I cringe at the thought that people think this is the only source for information about the TR and cringe even more when they quote from it. The WE4 story in Hemmings Muscle Machines is but one example.

 

[toofastforyou]

I have this book in my collection and it's full of incorrect facts. I find the Steven Dove books are a better choice

Well, I wasn't aware thet there were that much "incorrect facts" in that book...Maybe it's just me who doesn't have enough knowledge about these cars...but I've had mine for only 21 years...
Seriously, do you have some examples of these "errors" ? Everything I read appeared ok to me, but there are so many "details" to these cars that it's quite possible for someone to make an erroneous statement and it will go unnoticed...

Claude

 

["Turbo-T"]

I have this book in my collection and it's full of incorrect facts. I find the Steven Dove books are a better choice because it's "just the facts" with out the opinion and conjecture of DK. Just because you've sold many a TR and have a company that sells parts doesn't make you the number one authority. Maybe if DK spent more time researching his facts than I'd have a different opinion of his books. I cringe at the thought that people think this is the only source for information about the TR and cringe even more when they quote from it. The WE4 story in Hemmings Muscle Machines is but one example.

Only if it says GNX's came with twin turbo V8's and a 6 speed. :biggrin:

 

[turbofish38]

Seriously, do you have some examples of these "errors" ? Everything I read appeared ok to me, but there are so many "details" to these cars that it's quite possible for someone to make an erroneous statement and it will go unnoticed

I already stated one good example. Here is the thread http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/232029-desirable-87-we4-wo2-sport-app-package-2.html scroll down to my posts to see what I mean.
You know one would think that with all of the cars that DK claims he sold he would have kept better documentation so he could back up his claims. Yeah I guess you can say anything you want when you have the reputation and everybody believes it as the gospel truth. And that there is my problem with his book. You get some schmuck quoting the BS because he read it from a supposed reliable source. Well pretty soon some guy likes me calls you out but than it's too late. We all joke about the TT GNX myth but it's crap like this that really does a lot of harm to us as a community. Here's but a few examples out of the Fourth printing of the book.

At some point during production Buick made approximately 50 aluminum style turbo hoods......

. Oh so that's how that rumor got started? Okay I'm a proponent of logic when it comes to a debate like this. If I cant prove that aluminum hoods did exist than I have to prove they didn't exist. Get my POV? Gee lets see? With all of the Power Source books written. With almost 50,000 turbo cars built between the years 81-87.With the invention of the AlGore internet. Why hasn't one of these hoods surfaced? Ever? They only made 547 GNX's and you see those parts all over the place. Every Stage 1 or 2 part ever made has a part number and it has been published somewhere at one time or another. I have just about every book written about Buicks but not one of them has any mention of one of these hoods let alone a part number that was issued. Several of us have 14 bolt factory heads but not one of us has an aluminum hood? Which one is rarer and harder to find? You know if you look in the 44W parts catalog you will see a footnote on replacing the alloy hood on the B-Body LeSabre/Park Ave. Where is the footnote for the G-Body aluminum hood? There aint one because they never existed. I could rant all day long on the threads and myths started because of this.

Although the 1987 WE4 Turbo Regals were not scheduled to have it, we have seen original WE4s with the hood ornament

Another BS myth. Where's the proof? You know the same myth was started that the first batch of 1984 GN's also had the hood ornament. But you know that myth was plausable because a few of us took the time to weed through the BS. Not only did we find a original owner of probably the very first 84 GN built but he had enough proof in the form of paperwork and pictures to prove his rolled out of Flint with a hood ornament. There was even a copy of a magazine article that also showed a GN with the hood ornament. But DK couln't even provide a source for his statement. Why he even bothers to write this crap is beyound me. What purpose does it serve? When the chit hits the fan it certainly doesn't do his reputation as an expert any good. Does it? I guess you could argue that they ran out of the correct header panels that day but even that doesn't make any sense seeing as you never heard of a 87 GN with the hood ornament.

Oh and why does he insist on calling every turbo'd Regal a Turbo T? If he is such the expert on WE4s and such than he would know that the only true Turbo T is the WE4. Plenty of threads about this debate too.

The third version was the all-steel reinforcement brace for the front and rear. These came on the Grand National.
However,it was possible to get the lighter aluminum braces on your Grand National. Not many car owners did,probably because little was known about them back in 1986 and 1987.
Think about it,when you ordered your car new and the options were discussed and priced,braces were usually not high on your "options" list. It is interesting to note, the lighter aluminum braces are quite costly today, running at least $150 more than the steel braces. Also interesting is the fact that painted Grand National bumpers from GM cost more than the chrome ones available on the other models. One of the reasons the T-Types and Turbo-Ts were faster than the Grand Nationals was because of the weight of these reinforcement braces. The trunk ID codes for the aluminum reinforcement braces "VD6" for the front and "VD7" for the rear.

Again if DK kept better documentation than he would know that every, every single 1986 Grand National had the aluminum bumper braces. And every 1987 GN had the steels. What Option? These weren't an option. They were standard equipment on everything but the 87 GN and a few turbo'd Regals. You would think that somebody who sells copies of the dealer order albums would know that these weren't some super secret options that a sauvy street racer could order if he had a connection to the back door at the factory. Again more crazy BatSchidtz that doesn't belong in any reference book. Oh and I've got resources to back up my claims. I've been collecting SPID labels in the form of pictures that I find posted on the internet. I can truely say what I've said is the honest to God truth. Can DK? I've got proof. He doesn't.

Oh boy I could rant on forever but I think you get the point. It's time to stop the buck and start questioning who starts this crap to begin with. The sooner we knip it in the bud the sooner we can start enjoying the fruits of our labor or something corny like that. Knowledge is power and we all could use a little more power under our skullcap instead of under our hoods for a change.