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Brake help

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Joined
Jun 24, 2008
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449
Had a flashing brake light so i bought an accumulator bowl. I know to swap it out tap brakes 10 times with key off then remove. Did that and now when i turn car on and tap brakes brake light comes on and i can hear a motor for like 3 seconds tgen light goes out and pedal feels really mushy

Any help???


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I have to do this next week when my bowl arrives. My understanding is press the brake 15 to 20 times to empty the bowl. Then place a rag under the bowl and unscrew it. Screw in the new bowl. Then suck out old brake fluid only from the large portion of the resivour on the left and replace with new dot 3 or dot 4 fluid. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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I will try that asap , thank you for the reply.

I did notice fluid was low in that large portion after the swap going to buy a turkey baster now to suck the old stuff out


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Tried that and its still soft on the pedal...everytime i hit the brake with key on i hear the motor for 3 seconds

Lost lol


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Update , tried the bleeding process after doing some research

Went through 3 bottles of fluid getting the dirty black stuff out of there, of course i started at the wrong wheel first and failed lol

Back at it 2mrow


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There are a couple ways to attack this problem, and what most people don't understand is that the powermaster system has two completely separate systems.
From here on out I'll refer to them as the inboard side and the outboard side.

The inboard side is the powermaster's booster side that generates the power assist to the master cylinder. The accumulator is part of it, along with the pump and pressure sensor, and the inboard side of the reservoir holds the fluid for this section, and if you'll look, you can see that the inboard and outboard sides are totally separated.

The outboard side of the reservoir and master cylinder are like any other standard hydraulic braking system on cars. You bleed the brake system and outboard section using the same technique that you would use on any standard hydraulic brake system, BUT....... With the key OFF!!! You have NO need for the motor/pump to be cycling while you're doing a normal brake bleed technique.

Now, with all that said IF any air gets into the inboard PM section/reservoir you could have some issues, like a noisy pump, etc. The inboard side is commonly referred to as self bleeding, and for the most part it is. But there is a procedure for bleeding the inboard side. Of course you do all these bleeding procedures with the reservoir cover off so you can see what you're doing. Now, turn the key off, and start depressing the brake pedal slowly (so the fluid doesn't squirt out the top of the reservoir) as far as it will go. Keep repeating this (10-15 times) until the pedal gets real hard and wont hardly move. You'll see the fluid in the inboard side rising to near the top (be careful).
See any foamy looking air in the inboard fluid???? If so, go watch some more TV and let the bubbles completely disperse. When the fluid on the inboard side is air bubble free, turn the key on and the pump will run and re-pressurize the PM side. Now do the same procedure again. Keep repeating this until you can de-pressurize(power off pedal pushes) the PM side and not generate any air bubbles in the reservoir.

You'll notice that when the system is pressurized (power on) that the inboard reservoir is only about half full. this is normal. The only time it should be near full is when you've pumped the system down to depressurize (power off pedal pushes) it.

Also take note of the fill marks on the Outboard side of the reservoir. Don't let it get below MIN during normal operation and it doesn't need to be near the top either!!!!!!.

So, to properly replace the accumulator, depressurize the system (power off pedal pushes). Put a rag under the accumulator, unscrew it, screw the new accumulator into place. Turn key on to pressurize the system. Turn key off, depressurize the system to see if there's any air bubbles showing up in the inboard side like described above, bleed as required in accordance with above procedures.
After you've got the accumulator replaced and you still have a spongy brake pedal, then the rest of the system needs to be bled as a normal car would be as stated early in this post.
 
Thanks turboDave

I bled the accumulator side as ya stated and bench bled the MC this a.m.

Im now in the process of bleeding every caliper and my self bleeding tool just broke so off to advanced auto i go lol


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Spent about 8 hrs today trying to bleed the system , failed miseralbly again ...I dont get it there was clear streams of new fluid with no bubbles.

I started at the psngr rear then driver rear , psnge front , then driver front...still mushy

Sorry for the crappy sentencing , typing from my iphone lol


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Could the rubber wheel cylinder hoses be deteriorated to the point of bulging under pressure?
 
They actually looked great , no dirt or anything on them !!

HOWEVER i did notice that i still have the black proportioning valve on the car and not the brass one...looked for a plunger on it to hold it open but didnt see one


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Update

Drove car around and seems to work great , meaning the light doesnt come back on at all

Brakes worked every time just didnt feel as firm as i wanted


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Once you have your PM working right be sure to change the fluid regularly. Never let the fluid get black. I change mine twice a year with every oil change regardless of miles. You could probably get by with less frequent flushing but the point is: dirty fluid is one of the top killers of the Powermaster system. Regular preventive maintenance is necessary to keep them running right.
 
Thank you sir for the tip!!

It was black as shit before all this, went through 5 bottles of fluid so its brand new now and will keep it fresh for sure. Ive only owned the car since March...should have did this sooner


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Glad to help. Here is a tip from Richard Clark, one of the most respected members on this Forum, on how to do it without having to bleed the whole system everytime you change fluid. I consider this info priceless for anyone brave enough to continue staying with the Powermaster :D

keep life simple-----heres how to do it the easy way--------turn ignition off------pump pedal fully 10 times-------remove cover and take a turkey baster and remove the fluid from all three chambers----------replace it with dot 3 or 4-------do not use dot 5 synthetic because it will ruin the EPDM seals in the powermaster--------fill all three chambers to the marks that bring them to nearly full-------look close and you should see them--------replace the cap-----note: put the rubber gasket on the lid before putting it back on-------don't try to put it on the reservoir first--------turn the ingition on and watch the fluid level on the passenger side (inner most long chamber)-------it should drop to within about 1/4 of the bottom and stay there, you don't want it to empty completely-------add fluid if it goes too close to empty but not enough for the level to exceed 1/4 to 3/8 inch when it is pumped down-------the fluid from this chamber is stored in the accumulator and it needs to be able to go back to the reservoir if need be--------this simple two minute procedure doesn't remove all the fluid but it does change 80% of it and if you do this twice a year ( or each time you change your oil like i do) you will be covered-------it also eliminates all possibility of allowing air to enter the system that can happen if you to to the needless trouble to try to drain the lines as well--------normal operation will cause an exchange between the reservoir and the lines and regular changing will do all that is needed...............RC
 
I wonder why Richard made a point of how important it was to put the rubber gasket onto the lid before installing it, rather than placing it on the reservoir first???
 
Can't speak for Richard but I know I used to get minor leaks when I put the gasket on the reservoir first. Don't know why that is but it happened...
 
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