Brake question

[Nelson Ramos]

I have a factory brake booster system for a 86 gn The brake peddle gets hard and slowly goes down than the brakes slow the car. Also brake light goes on. Where do I start to solve this problem? Do I have to replace the system?

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[1fastcobra]

Switch on top. ( hard peddle) Grey one
Ck for leaks in the system
Lines . Wheel cylinders . Etc
( peddle fade )

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[Nelson Ramos]

Cool il check tomorrow. Thanks

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[Heisenberg]

You have what we affectionately call - The PowerMonster
I happen to have the opinion that TurboDave knows about as much as anyone about these systems.
I really respect his opinions regarding PM troubleshooting.
He usually chimes in - and tries to save folks from swappping switches, accumulators, motors etc - needlessly or prematurely.

REF:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/powermaster-brakes-diagnostic-information.362564/

Cozy up with a nice blanket, and a cup of your favorite beverage, because it's a lot of reading.
Sorry dood - it ain't as easy as adding mo fluid!

 

[Heisenberg]

I have a factory brake booster system for a 86 gn The brake peddle gets hard and slowly goes down than the brakes slow the car. Also brake light goes on. Where do I start to solve this problem? Do I have to replace the system?

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

And Nelson - try to filter out all the yelling that is sure to come your way - telling you to rip it all off and install vacuum.
That is really only a partial solution, and not always necessary.

 

[Nelson Ramos]

Iv had vacuum in the past. I like the original look..

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[chopped39]

If you dont like the vacuum set up install the hydroboost setup and get rid of the unpredictable power master. There was a reason gm left vacuum on the 89 Turbo trans am. I worked for chevy and had my share of repairing power masters. Most of the time we just installed a complete unit because of liability. The gn was not the only car with this set up. If its a show car and your going for points then leave it on the car and repair it if not and money is not an issue get the hydratech set up . SilverBulletGN has this set up on his car and its sweet. good luck

 

[Nelson Ramos]

Where do I get it

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[chopped39]

Where do I get it

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Hydratechbraking.com
Im going with vacuum right now to get the car done faster and then I'm going to get that setup. Dont bother with the power master. I wrecked my car because of it and I had low miles and no signs of any problems. Good luck

 

[Heisenberg]

Iv had vacuum in the past. I like the original look..

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I was desperately NOT trying to immediately push Nelson into ripping stuff off - but - truth be told - I prefer the look of a well done Hydroboost
That's stopping power.
I'm not quite sure why they even bothered with the PowerMonster in 1986 when they had a perfectly good solution in the HB.
But I suppose - no progress is ever made without trying things.

 

[Heisenberg]

Hydratechbraking.com
Im going with vacuum right now to get the car done faster and then I'm going to get that setup. Dont bother with the power master. I wrecked my car because of it and I had low miles and no signs of any problems. Good luck

Chopped - but that is sort of an urban legend - "if the PowerMonster fails - you have no brakes."
Because you usually have at least 3 pedal pushes in reserve - unless it is a catastrophic failure of the brake system.
It's really no different than any other of the "assist" methods - you always have something in reserve - different systems - yield different reserves - and then if all else fails - you revert to total manual brakes and brute force
What happened in your case?

 

[Nelson Ramos]

It looks good. Im gonna look into it. Thanks

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[chopped39]

Chopped - but that is sort of an urban legend - "if the PowerMonster fails - you have no brakes."
Because you usually have at least 3 pedal pushes in reserve - unless it is a catastrophic failure of the brake system.
It's really no different than any other of the "assist" methods - you always have something in reserve - different systems - yield different reserves - and then if all else fails - you revert to total manual brakes and brute force
What happened in your case?

Buick replaced the switch under recall. Thats the only part on brakes replaced except fluid. I was driving about 40-45mph and a Guy through a u-turn in front of me. I hit the brakes and the pedal was rock hard. I bent the steering wheel and brake pedal trying to stop the car and then the Lumina stopped me. I want to say the car had just over 30k on it It was towed to Buick and they said the power master failed. Working for Chevy at the time I asked the tech what failed and he said the motor had failed. The brake light never was on and I told him that. I went and looked the car even though the dealer didn't want me in there. I never looked at the car when I picked it up from Buick the first time.It still had the black switch on it so I started looking at it with the tech and when I started the car the pump never went on but neither did the light. They installed a complete power master and brake pedal and replaced the steering wheel and then off to their body shop where they said the car was totaled. The car was towed from there to a body shop that I knew and they said the car was not totaled. Buick said the frame was bent and after the second shop inspected it they said the frame was not bent so the car was fixed. Here is where the bs was found. I was looking at the new power master and the black switch was still on there so I called them back and they said that was what the power master came with. When I got the car back I installed the gray switch that I got from the same Buick dealer. I figured the switch they installed is the part that failed. My insurance company didn't want anything to with this because Buick just worked on it. The dealer payed for all repairs and gave me a loaner car while my buddies shop fixed it .

 

[chopped39]

Dont get me wrong.you can leave the power master on the car and repair it and take your chances. But It does not matter what system you have because every system has its faults .We know the faults of the power master. The vacuum system can fail just as easy and should give you a couple pumps to get stopped.
The hydro boost system can fail just as easy. The power steering pump breaks and your sol because not only are the brakes out but so is the steering. P chassis trucks are fun to drive with a failed pump. The funny thing is I was working on a Freight liner chassis and they have a power master type system on them now.

 

[gusszgs]

Isn't there a story somewhere about a kid who wrecked his dad's low mile GNX at the track due to a PM failure?
I changed to vacuum after getting the hard pedal too many times after throwing money away. Not worth the risk IMO, and the Vacuum set-up complete was under $200 from a great board member.

 

[chopped39]

Here are the pics on the wrecked Gnx. It says BPG 2007. This was a failed power master. I believe this car was fixed

 

[TurboDave]

Here are the pics on the wrecked Gnx. It says BPG 2007. This was a failed power master. I believe this car was fixed

Well, it is wrecked. A GNX? No.

 

[chopped39]

That is a Gnx. It was some older guy that wrecked the car. People on here know him I dont. They had the stock engine sitting in their garage. There was more pictures but this is all I have. These are from the post on this site.

 

[chopped39]

It was number 258