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No. only if they were exact same combos with the exact same tune with everything working exactly the same way.
There are too many variables.
Colder Weather and Alky Injection
- Thread starter TurboBuRick
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No. only if they were exact same combos with the exact same tune with everything working exactly the same way.
There are too many variables.
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
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Always a good topic of discussion. 
Murphster had posted a chart in another thread indicating the vapor temp of methanol under pressure.
If you have not studied it, you may want to take a look.
Colder temps raise mass flow and boost (all else being equal), and result in increased cylinder pressures.
Cylinder pressures produce torque . . . . .
I think a small nozzle pre-TB (5Gpm) combined with ported injection should solve this . . . . . .
Murphster had posted a chart in another thread indicating the vapor temp of methanol under pressure.
If you have not studied it, you may want to take a look.
Colder temps raise mass flow and boost (all else being equal), and result in increased cylinder pressures.
Cylinder pressures produce torque . . . . .
I think a small nozzle pre-TB (5Gpm) combined with ported injection should solve this . . . . . .
Just do some logical thinking here...... A smaller turbo with a stock location intercooler vs a large turbo with a huge front mount intercooler. The air temps after the intercooler are going to be a lot lower with the large turbo/intercooler vs the other setup. Now throw in the fact that a dual nozzle alky kit may be injecting 60-70% more alky over a single nozzle. So you have the combo of the lowest air temps possible with the most alky being injected. Not that I believe its something to worry about, but if you are going to see an issue in low temps like theorized it's going to happen on this type of combo way before a smaller turbo or stock location intercooler combo.
What is your definition of cold? I've run at the track in 25'F weather, now that is pretty cool, wouldn't consider it cold but it is the coldest you'll see here with the track being open. Of the three guys I know running in the cooler weather with alky all had to turn the alky down. At that temp with the 160 thermostat in the warmest my engine would get is 140'F.
It's a good discussion! There is a paper written on running Methanol is freezing weather and the car needed a heater to warm up the Methanol to run.
i agree there is many variables
we are running similar sized turbos, same injectors, same fuel lines, same basic engine build
the only notable differences off the top of my head is that im running champion irons vs pocket ported, champion ported stock intake vs stock, i also have a precision 70mm plenum with a 1" spacer vs a mease sheetmetal plenum with no spacer or powerplate.
paul also has a double pumper vs my single deatchwerk
This is a very interesting thread as I suspect my recent head gasket failure was due to a similar cause. My head gasket blew on a test drive the night of the coldest temps last year. Believe it was in the high 30's -low 40's at the time. My tune was the same as in the summer months. With a fuel system being near maxed out in warmer air, there probably was no room for error in those cold temps. Cylinder pressure must have been to much for the gasket. Boost spiked to 20-22 lbs a sec before it blew. I was running e85 with the alky kit turned on. Im sure there was other variables that came into play at the time also. But what I gather here is I should have payed more attention to fueling needs with the extra cold air.
Phoneguy
Cometic HG stress tester
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Phoneguy
Cometic HG stress tester
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I think that compression ratio might add to the issues here as well. Cylinder pressures will be much higher at 10:1 vs 8.5:1
Bryan
Bryan
Jerryl
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My understanding from reading posts is:
As long as the fuel makes it into the cylinder, it will vaporize during compression.
In my mind that means: Just get it in there.
My understanding is that the challenge has been “getting it in there . . . . evenly”
The hypothesis of uneven distribution, cold weather vaporization, dry manifold design, vapor temp under pressure all make sense.
As long as the fuel makes it into the cylinder, it will vaporize during compression.
In my mind that means: Just get it in there.
My understanding is that the challenge has been “getting it in there . . . . evenly”
The hypothesis of uneven distribution, cold weather vaporization, dry manifold design, vapor temp under pressure all make sense.
I experienced this a couple years ago with my own car.
Dual nozzle kit. High boost and timing.
My log showed the a/f at 10.2 iirc.
Blew the hell out of #1 head gasket and damaged a bearing.
Ambient temp was about 30f
My car has a large turbo and front mount.
Has anyone tried limiting airflow through the
Intercooler when it's cold out ?
Dual nozzle kit. High boost and timing.
My log showed the a/f at 10.2 iirc.
Blew the hell out of #1 head gasket and damaged a bearing.
Ambient temp was about 30f
My car has a large turbo and front mount.
Has anyone tried limiting airflow through the
Intercooler when it's cold out ?
Would the RJC power plate help with this issue as well? That should help prevent the front cylinders from running so lean? right? I have been waiting on it to get cold here in texas because my car runs great when it is around 60 degrees! And now i have something else to worry about! Damn!
Oil on threads is no good. That means there is oil in the combustion chamber. Oil will cause the motor to detonate. You need to look at guides, rings, PCV, etc to see where is the oil coming from.
paul uses oil on the threads so the plug can come out easier (or something like that)
The answer would be look for oil in the intake, top of pistons, combustion chamber, etc. I've always installed my plugs dry. thats just me. Or use antiseize on threads.. When I pull them and see oil I usually find oil other places. PCV is typically one of those area we get a lot of oil in the intake.
Race engines dont use a PCV. For this specific reason. You get oil in the chamber your like fried chicken.. done. As the oil ignites.
When it gets cold outside.. you retune for it. You cannot have a car tweaked out on a summer tune in the cold. Alcohol or not. This is Buick tuning 101. Way before alcohol kits where around everyone would add fuel when it got cold outside by turning down the FP regulator.
Now.. this is important.. if you use the alcohol purely for knock suppression.. meaning you've worked your way up tuning it and using just enough to no let the knock sensor go off.. whatever that is single nozzle, dual nozzle, etc.. and your flowing that amount.. you wont have any issues with distribution. If your trying to pummel the motor with methanol thinking that more is better.. then we have an issue.
Also.. most chips go into closed loop at 140 degree's. If your racing your engine at 140 you still may be in enrichment and the chip will add fuel your not thinking= bad stuff.
Big tractor trailers block off the radiators in the winter to get some temp.. something like this may be good for the Buick Intercooler. But not having temperature data.. all is just a guess. And guessing leaves you with mixed results.
Also remember that evry PSI boost =11df. 20 PSI is still 220 degree's plus ambient coming out of the turbo. So if its 40 outside thats 260 out of the turbo and the IC brings that down to ??? So the cahrge temp will be higher..
My personal thoughts.. way over-alcohol'd motor untuned for conditions in colder weather=kaboom. Cold weather and hurting Buick motors has been going on since 1987.
How fast is the car? How much does it weigh? That way we can determine HP. Based on HP we can determine how much fuel it needs. And how much is being displaced.
The 125 is at what boost level? For 25 PSI I would say OK at the mid-low 10 sec range.
Just the opposite. Normally the rear cylinders go leaner without the power plate. So theoretically you'd be better off without the plate in cold weather. : ) But I don't think you'll have to worry about temps getting too cold with a dutt neck stock IC that's listed in your sig. You'd need a large IC that can get the temps down. And if you are running the turbo in your sig at high boost the temps out the turbo are going to be pretty high. You could probably run in -20 weather before you'd reach the inlet temps that the large turbo/FMIC combos are seeing and it's debatable if it's even an issue with those combos.
And just to be clear, what people are theorizing about the cold weather effect with alky would only affect those people who are doing wideband correcting of their fuel. So the theory is...is real, it would richen up the rear cylinders only, give a false rich reading, the chip/ecu pulls fuel, the front cylinders go lean when the fuel is pulled, boom. Now there is no measured data saying how much the wideband A/F reading would change with the effect as it is pure guesswork. So if you are not correcting and run the same amount of boost in the colder weather it shouldn't affect you. Now if you run more boost because of the cold weather you will need to add more fuel typically. So if you are not correcting for this you'll get in trouble anyway, which seems to be the most common fault in cold weather.
I would say based on weight and mph that pressure sounds correct. Or enough to not have an issue. Unless there is something else going on. Thats why I was looking at the plugs and the oil. And for Irons thats not crazy boost either. I think you sent me a log of the run. I'll look for it latter.
