Differences in LC2 engines

[MinnesotaFats13]

I am very sorry for such a new guy question, but I have been searching for the past two days and have not gotten a straight answer. I am thinking about swapping in a 3.8 Turbo into my IROC, but want to get all of my research done before I move forward.

What I would like to know is first the differences in the 3.8 engines from the non-turbo (LD5) to the turbo (LC2). Are there component differences between the engines? I would assume to compression is going to be higher in the LD5, are the pistons different? What about the heads?

The next question I had is directly related to the LC2. I know they were produced from 78-87 (some being used in the TTA), the bore was 3.8 and stroke 3.4. Now was that the short block the same through all of those years or did they change it up. I have located an LC2 from a '78 LeSabre for very cheap, but I don't know if they are the same.

Again I am sorry for the new guy question, but I ran out of things to search and needed a straight answer. Thanks for any help.

 

[EVIL]

There are differences from what I understand.
I believe the 86-87 heads are the same turbo and NA. 86-87 3.8 blocks are the same with different pistons and crank.
There is also a guy on here running a stock 86-87 NA motor with a full turbo setup to see how long it can handle the power. He's in CT i think.

Someone will chime in with more detailed info.

That 78 3.8 will be different than a newer one. I'd find an an 86-87 motor.

D

 

[earlbrown]

When GM put the turbo V6 in a 3rd gen F-body they had to use different pistons than a GN and FWD heads.

 

[Pronto]

http://www.gnttype.org/
Check the resources drop down and read the tech and photo articles.

 

[HouTX87]

I'm pretty sure the only engines designated LC2 are the 86-87 intercooled engines except for the '89 TTA but I could be wrong.

 

[MinnesotaFats13]

I will not be running A/C, so I will not have to copy the TTA setup. I can run the GN/T-Type headers and heads.

Pronto, thank you very much for the link. I found exactly what I was looking for and you guys were correct. I am looking for the 86-87 blocks, the others are different.

Thank you very much for the quick replies.

 

[coldair85GN]

You will have to use FWD heads from the original 3800 that came in the full size LeSabre, Delta 88, Bonneville, etc... 78-85 blocks are considerably different...14 bolt oilpan, lifter valley is weaker....generally if you can find an 86-87 block that is the one to get. The early blocks can make a shit ton of power but the 86-87's have a bigger following and parts are more readily available. Trust me when I tell you also that you really should ditch the 700R4 in your Iroc and go with a 2004R. Gear ratios are different and the 700 weighs more. I know someone who did this exact swap into a late 80's TPI GTA Trans Am and it ran slower with the 700R4 behind it than with a 2004R (14.3@97 vs 13.6@101mph).

 

[87GNSteve]

I did that swap many years ago into a GTA. Here is a write up. Note: some of the stuff is outdated concerning the vendors.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/engine-swap/290554-lc2-swap-pics.html

 

[MinnesotaFats13]

Car has a T5 in it and not 700. I was thinking about keeping the transmission, I do not drag race or beat on my car so no concern about blowing up the transmission, until I could afford to put in a T56 that could handle a little more power.

After reading through all of the information here and in the links provided and then looking at the prices of the 86/87 stuff. It looks like the Series II (looking at the L67) with a turbo might be the better option. I have already found an engine, harness, and computer for less than $300. That just means intake, turbo parts, and transmission and it will be ready to go. This would run me around $2500 or less and I would have plenty of power to keep me happy.

 

[DCVING 6]

Car has a T5 in it and not 700. I was thinking about keeping the transmission, I do not drag race or beat on my car so no concern about blowing up the transmission, until I could afford to put in a T56 that could handle a little more power.

After reading through all of the information here and in the links provided and then looking at the prices of the 86/87 stuff. It looks like the Series II (looking at the L67) with a turbo might be the better option. I have already found an engine, harness, and computer for less than $300. That just means intake, turbo parts, and transmission and it will be ready to go. This would run me around $2500 or less and I would have plenty of power to keep me happy.

Would it be possible to adapt the intake/supercharger setup from a GTP or Buick GS to a series 2 3.8 out of a newer camaro? That would be an interesting setup.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Car has a T5 in it and not 700. I was thinking about keeping the transmission, I do not drag race or beat on my car so no concern about blowing up the transmission, until I could afford to put in a T56 that could handle a little more power.

After reading through all of the information here and in the links provided and then looking at the prices of the 86/87 stuff. It looks like the Series II (looking at the L67) with a turbo might be the better option. I have already found an engine, harness, and computer for less than $300. That just means intake, turbo parts, and transmission and it will be ready to go. This would run me around $2500 or less and I would have plenty of power to keep me happy.

Dont expect the T5 to last very long behind the torque of the V6.... mine spit 3 gear out after just a few blast of boost. was the same trans too, Iroc 5 except i had changed the tail shaft to move the shifter location.

and dont forget, all series II stuff has a 60* bellhousing not the standard BOP pattern

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Sell the Iroc and buy a TTA. Sounds like im being a jerk, but it will save you time and money.Unless you have an abundance of those.

 

[87GNSteve]

Sell the Iroc and buy a TTA. Sounds like im being a jerk, but it will save you time and money.Unless you have an abundance of those.

True...I spent soo much by the end of getting my car to how I wanted it I could have bought a real mint TTA.

 

[MinnesotaFats13]

I have had several people tell me to buy a TTA or GN, but that is just not going to happen. This car will be staying with me for the long haul. I really don't think it is going to cost me $8K to finish the job. If I really wanted to do a GN swap I have found a complete motor (turbo and all) for $4K. A couple hundred more and I could be done. If I went with a 3800 Series II I could probably get it completely done for $2K with the newer T5 and the turbo kit or less with a supercharger.

 

[87GNSteve]

The series II would probably be more rewarding in the end IMO. More work, but well worth it.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

show us what you got..... these guys have lots of experiance here.....

watch the little things nickle and dime ya to death.

 

[TT/Ameasap]

I have had several people tell me to buy a TTA or GN, but that is just not going to happen. This car will be staying with me for the long haul. I really don't think it is going to cost me $8K to finish the job. If I really wanted to do a GN swap I have found a complete motor (turbo and all) for $4K. A couple hundred more and I could be done. If I went with a 3800 Series II I could probably get it completely done for $2K with the newer T5 and the turbo kit or less with a supercharger.

I really dont understand your logic. 4k cash plus what ever you get out of your car..$3000? is 7k. You can find a TTA for 7K... there out there. And it will be faster than the current car. I sold a TTA roller with a cage and everything ready to go with 80k miles with the motor(spun bearing) for 5k. Nobody on here wanted it. So ebay it went. I needed the cash.
Ditch the Iroc. Find a TTA that needs some lovin and you wont look back. I had at least 8 thirdgens, trying to make them fast....11.90's in a 92 Z28 with about 12k in the car. I ended up with a race car that I tried to sell for 1 full year. Finally got $7500 out of it because the guy didnt know anything about cars. Another car (formula) I sold to a buddy that paid half what I had in it. Experience is speaking here.

 

[TexasT]

Unless you are just wanting something "different" or unique, and have deeeeep pockets and a lot of free time, a v6 in an fbody is just an exercise in spending that time and money.

Put an lsx in and call it a day. When the mustang guys are doin it, it has plenty of bang for the buck.

Trying to do the turbo v6 gets you what? A tta or gn has heritage. Yours has your personal memories. Not a recipe for resale when the time comes. Always have an exit plan. Things happen.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[MinnesotaFats13]

Truth is I have done more research on the LS in my car than any other swap idea and it has just been done too much. I do want something different. I just walked through Car Craft Summer Nationals last weekend and it was LS after LS and it got boring. Also I would be looking at a minimum of $2.5K for a stock 5.3 in my car, and that would be using the T5, add another $500-2K for a 4th gen transmission. There is no cheap swap and that's with using all truck stuff and making a lot of parts and modifications myself. A turbo 3.8 or 3800 making more power for less money is not a horrible idea. Also the idea of having a pretty much dropout, without having to modify existing parts to get it to work sounds pretty nice.

Again this car is going nowhere. My kids love it, my wife likes it, I have owned it for longer than a lot of people have been alive and I have no desire to sell it at all.

Thanks again for the help and information.

 

[JustABuick]

Truth is I have done more research on the LS in my car than any other swap idea and it has just been done too much. I do want something different. I just walked through Car Craft Summer Nationals last weekend and it was LS after LS and it got boring.

I think it would be a cool idea, and definitely would be no slouch - coming from a previous 3rd gen owner I'm on my first LC2 (putting one into a roller 87 Turbo Regal I bought) and I'm pretty sure I could get an LS engine installed, running, and mildly built significantly cheaper than an LC2, but, as you said, it's been done to death. I have a 68 Camaro SS that needs a full restoration that I had originally considered putting an LC2 in, but after encountering the expense of these engines, I will probably end up running an LS swap