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Do I need a HV front cover?

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turbowrenchhead

Drive like you stole it!
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
854
I am wondering if I have to get a HV front cover. If so is the a 14 or 20 cover or do they interchange. I seen a new front cover for 140 in ramchargers. Do you then need a HV oil pump too? Or do you just interchange it from your old cover?
 
Cover should work with 14 or 20 bolt pan, so dont worry about that.
High volume oil pumps, if I remember correctly, use taller gears and come with a spacer plate so they will fit. Some people dont like them, Im not sure why, maybe someone else can comment.
I would at least put a new stock pump in, they are too cheap not to. I put a new stocker in mine with a booster plate. Oil pressure is always over 20psi at idle, even in hot weather.

P.S. I would choose the stock spring in the new oil pump kit. I had a stronger spring in mine at first, and as soon as the weather had got cold it blew the seal on the oil filter! (maybe because of the combination with the booster plate?)
 
I got one for my 85, it's better than trying to use the hi-vol kits. I found out the hard way if you don't have the spacer plate EXACTLY right the rotors lock up. Fortunate that I discovered this before test firing the engine. I got mine from johnsperformance.com and it was a complete kit (rotors/gears and a front crank seal) I don't remember if it mattered as far as a 14 or 20 bolt pan. Consider what a new GM cover and hi-vol kit cost, the HV cover is the way to go.....
 
Get the cover from Silver Seal. It's a HV cover comes with new oil pump gears and gaskets at around $135 shipped. It's the same covers others sell for alot more. I did mine a few weeks ago with new timing chain, water pump and so on and no problems and car doesn't leak anymore oil out of the front seal.
Dan
 
The HV spacer kit is only about $15 and can be done with the cover on the car. It's really not hard to do it right. (Can't be too hard if I did it ;) )


I think I would go with the Ruggle's booster plate next time though.
 
If you are really careful, no it's not that difficult, but miss by an eyelash in the mounting pins and you're screwed, again been there did that (on a brand new GM cover) Another thing to consider is what kind of wear is in not only the oil pump cavity but the area where the cam button rides against the cover.think i paid around 2140-145 from Johns..
 
While I'm on this subject. What is everyone using for timing chain?
I have went through 3 sets already. The stock replacements aren't cutting it. I had the motor apart 3 times and every time they are loose as a 2 dollar ho.
 
The Buick chains are just loose to begin with, thus the need for the tensioner. Make sure you have a good tensioner, for one.
Ive used a double roller and had no problems that I could tell, however that was before I started racing the car alot. The last time I had the front cover off I put in a stock GM timing chain set w/ a new tensioner.
Ive heard pro/cons about the double rollers, like I said, I had no problem with mine. Just make sure you DONT use the tensioner with it if you go with a double roller. As far as the stocker (from GM) you know theyre good for over 100,000 miles at least, and I have learned that the nylon cam gear is better to have than the metal. I know everyone (including myself) would usually say metal is best, but its something to do with false knock that can transcend through the cam with the metal gear back to the knock sensor, where as the nylon one will deaden the sound and is much quieter. I know some might go against this, but this is just what I have heard from a couple of sources, including reputable Buick/TR people that have been dealing with them since they came off the assembly line. I did notice the engine a bit quieter from the front with the new GM chain versus the double roller, but as far as a performance difference, I cant say for sure.
 
why a hv kit?

i just got a rebuilt oil pump and my car sits at 51psi cold

warm idle.. 25..

hot idle (takes a long ass time since its cold now) is about .. 15 or so i guess

should be enough oil for you
 
If you look historically, guys like Jim Ruggles and Smokey Yunick felt the Buick V6's oiling system was very poor, thus the booster plate and HV kits. But they were building high-reving NASCAR engine. Seems like plenty of our cars are doing well with no upgrades.

I'm more concerned will the oil bypass. I run a PF52, but I want to find a why to run PF40(?). We can't use the biggie adapter since we don't run oil cooler apadters like the IC guys.
 
b4black, it's a PF24 filter you're thinking of and there is a way to do it...I'm running one on my motor right now...no oil cooler...

There is a part # from GM, and there are(were) very few of the oil pump covers left when I bought mine, but it uses the same oil pump cover as the metric threaded ones on these later even-fire V6's but has the bigger standard inch thread instead of the smaller metric threads...It is angled the same and is a direct bolt-on...

The part # is for the oil pump cover and new oil pump gears/gasket in one box...The last one that I had bought was about $80, if I remember right...

If you still want the part number, let me know and I'll see if I can dig it up...
 
go with the HV it is good ins. mine has both pan bolt patterns (14-20)and is "cleaner looking" than a plate. They are also less leak prone.:)
 
Originally posted by FJM568
If you still want the part number, let me know and I'll see if I can dig it up...

I want, I want!! :)

I have a cover for a PF-24, but it's for a 350 V8 and isn't angled right. I gave up looking becuase I couldn't find a number for a V6 non-metric cover.

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by b4black
If you look historically, guys like Jim Ruggles and Smokey Yunick felt the Buick V6's oiling system was very poor, thus the booster plate and HV kits. But they were building high-reving NASCAR engine. Seems like plenty of our cars are doing well with no upgrades.

Booster plate yes, not sure about the HV pumps. Quote from the Ruggles Buick V6 Performance Guide (the Ruggles/Hot Rod thing): "We've run all day long at Daytona (six hours) at a hot oil pressure of 60-65 pounds and done it with the same oiling system we've just described, with no problems and an otherwise stock oil pump."

I'm no expert, so my opinion doesn't count for much, but I wouldn't do the HV pump except as a bandaid for an engine with clearance problems. If a stock size pump can do the job on a particular engine, a HV pump doesn't help and might hurt.

John
 
Originally posted by b4black
I want, I want!! :)

I have a cover for a PF-24, but it's for a 350 V8 and isn't angled right. I gave up looking becuase I couldn't find a number for a V6 non-metric cover.

Thanks!


Rich, you have a PM... :D
 
A HV pump is not needed. The safe redline on our engines is 5500, where a stocker is more than enough. The spacer and deeper gears add pressure to the cam sensor. Ever hear of someone talking about a clicking cam sensor? There is no shimming to fix it, just cover it up. When it clicks, the bushing is wore out. It needs replaced.
 
Originally posted by forcefed3.8's
A HV pump is not needed. The safe redline on our engines is 5500, where a stocker is more than enough. The spacer and deeper gears add pressure to the cam sensor. Ever hear of someone talking about a clicking cam sensor? There is no shimming to fix it, just cover it up. When it clicks, the bushing is wore out. It needs replaced.
Call me stupid but I dont get it? The cam sensors not in an oil gallery What do you mean adds presure?:confused:
 
The HV oil pump puts a lot of side load on the front cam bearing/cam sensor...The HV oil pump gears will try to make the cam sensor walk off the cam gear, which puts a lot of pressure on the cam sensor bushings and forcing the cam sensor gear into the cam gear which pushes the front cam bearing journal into the front cam bearing and wears out that cam bearing causing a loss of oil pressure due to increased bearing clearances and cam bearing material that gets forced into the hole that feeds the driver's side lifter galley may get closed up causing oil starvation to the drivers side lifters, etc...It's pretty much the same problem that the BB Buick guys have when running the HV oil pump on the 455's...

edit...
WOW!!! maybe I should try some punctuation on that second sentence...I think that has go to be the longest sentence I have ever typed!!! :p
 
I understand the above I should have read it better. But even still With high volume there should not be any more stress. You are still pushing oil to all the parts and pushing oil through the bypass valve as with the stock. high presure pump should cause more lag and stress resulting in the above condtions.right? or wrong?:confused:

p.s. I have one on mine and thought it was best at the time.
 
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