Do I need new injectors?

[d0n_3d]

When I hook up TurboLink and check the BLM and Integrator numbers...they are always between 128 and 150 which means I am running lean right? Well I get these numbers no matter where I put my fuel pressure whether at 46 psi or 52 psi with line off!

Another thing that is leaving me to believe my injectors are bad is that I am knocking at 12-14 lbs of boost! TurboLink keeps showing the lean conditions and when my car sits in park for a minute or so...the ses light comes on and a code 44 shows up which is a lean condition.

I currently have the stock injectors and they have around 80k miles on them driven everyday. I highly sense that they are either clogged or leaking badly and/or the spray pattern is completely shot. Think it's time to get new injectors? I was gonna replace them with 42.5's anyways down the road but since this is is happening I might as well replace them now.

 

[buickboy]

Is the car hard to start when it is cold? Hook up a pressure guage (key on), build pressure, and then turn key off. Watch guage. If pressure goes to zero in less than 20 minutes, i would say to suspect the injectors especially with the higher mileage.
If they don't bleed down pressure too fast, look at the regulator or fuel pump check valve for internal leaking down. Good luck
Mitch

 

[gnxis]

a 44 is sometimes related to bad o2 sensor, it happened to me so try that first. if money is not an issue go for the 009's, i mean it cant hurt.

 

[UNGN]

The knock is likely crappy gas, a carboned up motor or both (nothing like cruising around with 50 psi of FP to carbon up a motor). Lean at idle or cruise is fine. What are you worried about? Add some octane in the form of xylene or race gas and drive the car around. See if it knocks. If the knock goes away, try a better chip with less timing.

 

[Scott231]

Sounds to me like a car that is out of tune, is in need of the Spring cleaning procedures on GNTTYPE.org, could use a pressurized injector cleaning, a clean O2 sensor and the driver side header welded up...but that's just a guess.

Throwing new injectors on it to see if the problem will go away is like throwing money at a problem until it goes away. You should isolate the problem first (with a "Spring-Cleaned" motor), and then remedy the sulprit.

 

[SinistrV6]

Code 44

I too, had a mysterious Code 44 on my old 170k mile '86 GN. Tried everything (I thought) until someone on another board asked if I had one of those brass "positive shut-off" PCV valves on it. I did. Pulled it, put on the stocker and everything went back to normal. Apparently the aftermarket one flows too much air and this unmetered air shows up as a lean condition. Just my .02 worth. If you have a stock PCV, this isn't your problem but it might help someone else.
Good luck.
Richard Gautier

 

[d0n_3d]

Well all those suggestions have been already taken into consideration. I have a brand new stock OEM delco 02 sensor in. I have a brand new stock OEM delco PCV Valve...I have no crack on my driver side header or anywhere for that matter. My car is really not out of tune...

yes the fuel pressure does go down after i shut off the car in like a half hour...pressure would go from wherever i had it set to almost 0 in a half hour...so my guess is leaky injectors...

the knock issue is prolly from bad gas yes and i most likely have a lot of carbon buildup in the motor somewhere...i am getting an alky injection kit soon so that should clear up any carbon i would assume correct?

 

[TurboMike]

Originally posted by d0n_3d
When I hook up TurboLink and check the BLM and Integrator numbers...they are always between 128 and 150 which means I am running lean right? Well I get these numbers no matter where I put my fuel pressure whether at 46 psi or 52 psi with line off!

The numbers will vary. I alway say 128 +/- 15. It's normal for the BLM to sway, but if it goes extreme and stays there (90 or 150) then you have a problem. INT will very rapidly so you really can't watch it. Also Tlink don't show which cell the BLM is using, so the quick change in BLM may just be a cell change. Download Direct Scan and run a demo and you can see more what I mean.


Another thing that is leaving me to believe my injectors are bad is that I am knocking at 12-14 lbs of boost! TurboLink keeps showing the lean conditions and when my car sits in park for a minute or so...the ses light comes on and a code 44 shows up which is a lean condition.

Knock can be caused by:
1. Too much boost
2. Too much timing
3. Too little octane
4. Too much static compression
5. Too lean mixture

Undersize injectors could be your problem. Depends on your HP level. If you mid to low 12's i'd go bigger (i know, i know... guys have went 11's on stock Inj)

The code 44 is lean, but it may be some other problem other than injectors. You might try cleaning them first. Is your BLM real high when the 02 show low at a idle?

I currently have the stock injectors and they have around 80k miles on them driven everyday. I highly sense that they are either clogged or leaking badly and/or the spray pattern is completely shot. Think it's time to get new injectors? I was gonna replace them with 42.5's anyways down the road but since this is is happening I might as well replace them now.

If you plan on replacing them anyway, may as well "justify" it now with your problem. Size depends on HP goal. If high 11's is your goal blue tops are nice. 42.5's (009s) are notorious for not being too linear.

btw, nice to see you still around:
http://www.turbobuicks.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001773.html

 

[d0n_3d]

yeah i am still around...heh things are cool now, maybe i over-reacted, i am still a kid don't forget

my blms are more closer to 150 all the time then 128...

my knock has gone away for the most part...i believe it was a bad tank of gas

i don't really have a goal...i just want big enough injectors so just in case i do decide to go faster than low 12's i will have the injectors already and i have heard alot of good things about the 009's...

i think my limits will be high 11's or a little faster because i don't want a roll cage in a daily driven street car...i just want my car to be the fastest it can be and can still drive it everyday on the street like i do now...i think with a turbo and injectors change 11's are very accomplishable though...

i'm gonna replace the injectors and see if this stuff clears up...i am pretty sure it's the injectors because there is nothing else wrong with the car...i checked high and low for other stuff...most everything has been replaced and works fine...

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by d0n_3d
Well all those suggestions have been already taken into consideration. I have a brand new stock OEM delco 02 sensor in. I have a brand new stock OEM delco PCV Valve...I have no crack on my driver side header or anywhere for that matter.

yes the fuel pressure does go down after i shut off the car in like a half hour...pressure would go from wherever i had it set to almost 0 in a half hour...so my guess is leaky injectors...

my knock has gone away for the most part...i believe it was a bad tank of gas

OK, now you tell us you've replaced those things...I retract my earlier comments.

To check for leaking fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulator, or bad chack valve, go to http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuelsystem/fpsys_check.html everything you need to check is right there.

The easiest thing to do to begin engine knock diagnosis is to add some fresh gasoline, possibly in higher and higher octane levels to see if that impacts the severity of knock...if not, you've got some real problems.

Good luck