blueeyeddevil
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2007
I was told if I convert to E-85 in california I would not need Bi-anual smog checks any more. Is this true or just rumor?
E-85 and smog checks
- Thread starter blueeyeddevil
- Start date
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
since it's technically a federal offense to use anything but gasoline to power your car, i think it might be a problem.
How do you figure? Please cite the applicable laws.
I don't have the laws on hand but, running your car on a fuel that it was not epa certified to run on would make the original EPA certification invalid. Thats actually a federal law.
It's just like when you put a set of headers on your car, the original epa certification is invalid thus to be legal you have to prove the car will not have adversely affected emissions initially or for a certain mileage (i think its 100k miles)
To make it legal, you would have to submit your vehicle for CARB certification and prove it would pollute equal to or less than what it would on gasoline and that costs a lot of money.
But lets be real.. emissions stations dont test your fuel. You could breeze through the sniffer with E85.
The epa test of a new car that the auto manufacturers go through is much much more elaborate than what you go through at a test only station.
It's just like when you put a set of headers on your car, the original epa certification is invalid thus to be legal you have to prove the car will not have adversely affected emissions initially or for a certain mileage (i think its 100k miles)
To make it legal, you would have to submit your vehicle for CARB certification and prove it would pollute equal to or less than what it would on gasoline and that costs a lot of money.
But lets be real.. emissions stations dont test your fuel. You could breeze through the sniffer with E85.
The epa test of a new car that the auto manufacturers go through is much much more elaborate than what you go through at a test only station.
Jay Nesbitt
Lurker Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2003
Well, in this state, Kansas, there is a tax credit for converting to E85. I was gonna use this for the purchase of the 160 PPH injectors.....no, just kidding (but it did cross my mind)
jn
jn
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
it's actually technically a federal offense to modify any part of the car that might affect the emissions output of the car- and that means everything between the air filter and the tail pipe.
modifying a car isn't a right- it's actually a priviledge.
modifying a car isn't a right- it's actually a priviledge.
Actually, I believe it's only a federal offense to disable or remove a factory-installed emissions control device. Also, there are CARB certified parts that the EPA accepts. I still don't think it's illegal to put E85 in your car as long as federal excise taxes for motor fuels are paid.
I'm going to look into this a little more.
Okay, I did a little research. The EPA says essentially that since you have to modify a gasoline car to run E85, it can't be done without certification. A little logic gap though: cars are already running a gasoline-ethanol mix (E10.)
There's also one supposedly EPA-approved conversion I found. It looks like a injector PW modifier that costs about $500 that they say works on all EFI cars. So, in principle, EPA says there's nothing inherently illegal about using E85, just that modifying your car to do so is illegal without EPA certification.
Which, if you're using a MAF translator or aftermarket chip or anything other than the stock ecm and chip...well, you've popped that cherry already.
BTW, our friendly bureaucrats at EPA are already looking into the other-than-hydrocarbon pollutants (some sort of alkyhydes or whatever) that ethanol produces. Typical. They really want us all on the Tram, where good socialists go.
There's also one supposedly EPA-approved conversion I found. It looks like a injector PW modifier that costs about $500 that they say works on all EFI cars. So, in principle, EPA says there's nothing inherently illegal about using E85, just that modifying your car to do so is illegal without EPA certification.
Which, if you're using a MAF translator or aftermarket chip or anything other than the stock ecm and chip...well, you've popped that cherry already.
BTW, our friendly bureaucrats at EPA are already looking into the other-than-hydrocarbon pollutants (some sort of alkyhydes or whatever) that ethanol produces. Typical. They really want us all on the Tram, where good socialists go.
Adam Connell
Monster Truckin since 87'
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
So I guess the next question is: Since E-85 produces less carbon could you possibly get through a sniffer without a cat??
The compund we are concerned with is HydroCarbons. Ethanol itself is not a HC based fuel so if you ran E-98 or E-100 they would be nonexistent. No you wouldn't need the cat anymore except for the visual inspection part. E-85 will have some HCs but not enough to fail even without a CAT.
I was running a 50/50 mix when I did emissions testing on the white car. I'll have to dig up my report; but even at that mix the HCs were almost non-detectable. However my C02 was up mainly because I was using a 160 degree stat.
blueeyeddevil
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2007
I dont think I possed my question very clearly. I was told that in California if you convert to E-85 you would no longer have to do bi-anual smog checks. Basically exempt like pre 73 cars are now. I wanted to know if there was any truth to this rumor, because if so, then I would 100% switch over to E-85. It might be only a california thing though as well.
It might be only a california thing though as well.
