E85 Walbro 416LPH In tank Pump

[turbo89]

Got any data files?

Just data acquisition files..

and your numbers in your calcs are off.. how about some real numbers ?

Ever weigh a gallon of E85 ? ... BSFC is more like .80 ... run your numbers again with the proper weight and come back as to the max power on a 80g/h delivery.. then run it through your 1/4 mile calc for a full weight GN ... my car me in it is ~3565

 

[696]

That DW 301 is the one that's the same as the TT 340 I believe. It must be one amazing pump. I would like to see some files as well since you are the only one I know of able to run it in the 10's, so I don't think it just my car... just saying. Any other guys here from your group on cars that you have worked on that is doing the same #'s w/ 301 & 80's?

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[turbo89]

That DW 301 is the one that's the same as the TT 340 I believe. It must be one amazing pump. I would like to see some files as well since you are the only one I know of able to run it in the 10's, so I don't think it just my car... just saying. Any other guys here from your group on cars that you have worked on that is doing the same #'s w/ 301 & 80's?

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Bullshit.. plenty of cars OTHER than mine .. that run into the 10's with that pump.. your barking up the wrong tree ..

Start a DW301 pump thread or continue one in the E85 section.. plenty of data .. if the 301 can do it I know the original OP's ? that a 400 lph pump can do it..

Just like 80# injectors can't support 10's ... it's nonsense

 

[BEATAV8]

Just data acquisition files..

and your numbers in your calcs are off.. how about some real numbers ?

Ever weigh a gallon of E85 ? ... BSFC is more like .80 ... run your numbers again with the proper weight and come back as to the max power on a 80g/h delivery.. then run it through your 1/4 mile calc for a full weight GN ... my car me in it is ~3565

BSFC is not density. It's Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Units are Lb/HP-Hr here in God's country.

If your BSFC is low, your tunes are lean. .85 BSFC is typical of a high power boosted E85 application. .78-.80 BSFC would be on the lean side for E85.

 

[696]

Bullshit.. plenty of cars OTHER than mine .. that run into the 10's with that pump.. your barking up the wrong tree ..

Start a DW301 pump thread or continue one in the E85 section.. plenty of data .. if the 301 can do it I know the original OP's ? that a 400 lph pump can do it..

Just like 80# injectors can't support 10's ... it's nonsense

Relax buddy, not everyone is running those #'s. A lot are out of pump that have "clean" power running to them. Otherwise others would be posting saying so.
You can cheat a lot of things, one guy used stock fuel lines to run into the 10's by having his fuel pressure at 72 at idle..u can do it, but it's not right.
People can claim whatever. Data or more than 1 person is always more convincing
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[turbo89]

Relax buddy, not everyone is running those #'s. A lot are out of pump that have "clean" power running to them. Otherwise others would be posting saying so.
You can cheat a lot of things, one guy used stock fuel lines to run into the 10's by having his fuel pressure at 72 at idle..u can do it, but it's not right.
People can claim whatever. Data or more than 1 person is always more convincing
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There are 2 guys on here running the same pump well into the 10's ... they can comment on the pump .. I suspect they AREN'T commenting because A) I know they both street race or B) they are too ashamed to admit
they couldn't get the cars into the 10's on their own ...

either way makes no difference to me .. NO the base FP isn't jacked up .. car idles smooth as could be and maintains safe AFR's ...Done with this topic

 

[turbo89]

BSFC is not density. It's Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Units are Lb/HP-Hr here in God's country.

If your BSFC is low, your tunes are lean. .85 BSFC is typical of a high power boosted E85 application. .78-.80 BSFC would be on the lean side for E85.

educate me .... How many Lbs of E85 in your example of 565hp and .85 BSFC did you burn to get 565hp?

 

[696]

There are 2 guys on here running the same pump well into the 10's ... they can comment on the pump .. I suspect they AREN'T commenting because A) I know they both street race or B) they are too ashamed to admit
they couldn't get the cars into the 10's on their own ...

either way makes no difference to me .. NO the base FP isn't jacked up .. car idles smooth as could be and maintains safe AFR's ...Done with this topic

Is this the thread you are talking about??
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/dw-pump-e-85.399792/#post-3258712
It say's the same thing as you do here. When 500hp on a DW301 is questioned you say you and your friends have done it. But no one else replied in that thread either that said they had?
As far as street racing, are you coming up with the cars running mid 10's cause they have beat mid 10 track established cars or have they went to the track to get the #'s you are talking about?
With regards to being ashamed, they shouldn't be. Kip and Collin (top 2 named in my sig) have helped me a TON and saved me some $$$. We are all here to learn and help one another out.
I'm just trying to get some info on this that has some backing...
BTW, looking over some of my logs I would say that #79's or #80's could tickle into the 10's up not much futher.

 

[BEATAV8]

educate me .... How many Lbs of E85 in your example of 565hp and .85 BSFC did you burn to get 565hp?

That example is for a 565HP x 0.85BSFC = 480lb/hr fuel rate. 75 gallons per hour. Fuel density 6.4lb/gal.

 

[turbo89]

That example is for a 565HP x 0.85BSFC = 480lb/hr fuel rate. 75 gallons per hour. Fuel density 6.4lb/gal.

Exactly my point .. in the example above you used 6 as the density not 6.4 which it is for fuel not E85 .. hence why I asked if you weighed it.. more like 6.5-6.6lbs/gal

You were using 80 gal/hr .. what you actually got was 75 gal / hr because the fuel density constant wasn't correct.

if you re-calc with the 80 gal/hr flow of a DW pump you get that it can actually support ... or 520 lbs of E85 / hr ....

Now .. how many HP is that even at the higher .85 BSFC ??? am I off at saying over 600 hp ?? 611 hp ??

with just a jack/ spare taken out and a set of slicks on welds .. surely a full weight GN can come in @ 3550 pounds with driver ....

What does that get us in the 1/4 ?

 

[turbo89]

Is this the thread you are talking about??
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/dw-pump-e-85.399792/#post-3258712
It say's the same thing as you do here. When 500hp on a DW301 is questioned you say you and your friends have done it. But no one else replied in that thread either that said they had?
As far as street racing, are you coming up with the cars running mid 10's cause they have beat mid 10 track established cars or have they went to the track to get the #'s you are talking about?
With regards to being ashamed, they shouldn't be. Kip and Collin (top 2 named in my sig) have helped me a TON and saved me some $$$. We are all here to learn and help one another out.
I'm just trying to get some info on this that has some backing...
BTW, looking over some of my logs I would say that #79's or #80's could tickle into the 10's up not much futher.

There is another thread on DC and logs with injector flows.. the same 80's you say can tickle 10's have been solid mid 10's
The 2 members on here .. run Mid 10's .. How do I know simple .. I tune their cars for them .. we had a track outting and we are all within 1-2 cars of each other trading in the first 60 feet .. How do I know they are 10 second rides.. simple I've been in enough of them.

I started with E85 in 03-04 and I get tired of seeing all the incorrect information being posted .. like you need 50% more or 40% more E85 than fuel .. it's nonsense
25-30% will get you close.. depends on the car/ setup. Everyone wants a magic AFR to target to call it good .. well THERE ISN't one ! Every car is different.
Thats why its key to learn to tune.. some do some dont.. some run 10's some run 11's or slower.

Keep an open mind .. there are other posts where other members come out and clearly say that the 301 can support 10 second times safely since you don't believe me .... as can a 80# injector ... Alot of the reasons people ( including venders) say that they cant support that power is that they are not feeding the pump clean power .. they have not verified pump flow on the vehicle.. and have other issues that they dont know better.. but you cant say the pump can't flow enough to run 10's .. thats nonsense

 

[BEATAV8]

Exactly my point .. in the example above you used 6 as the density not 6.4 which it is for fuel not E85 .. hence why I asked if you weighed it.. more like 6.5-6.6lbs/gal

You were using 80 gal/hr .. what you actually got was 75 gal / hr because the fuel density constant wasn't correct.

if you re-calc with the 80 gal/hr flow of a DW pump you get that it can actually support ... or 520 lbs of E85 / hr ....

Now .. how many HP is that even at the higher .85 BSFC ??? am I off at saying over 600 hp ?? 611 hp ??

with just a jack/ spare taken out and a set of slicks on welds .. surely a full weight GN can come in @ 3550 pounds with driver ....

What does that get us in the 1/4 ?

The vendor's bench data shows 80 gal/hr (16V / 75psi). You are recommending running right up to that bench spec without any margin at all to cover vehicle fuel system flow restrictions (not to mention a 1/2 volt lower supply). That is not a good recommendation.

 

[turbo89]

The vendor's bench data shows 80 gal/hr (16V / 75psi). You are recommending running right up to that bench spec without any margin at all to cover vehicle fuel system flow restrictions (not to mention a 1/2 volt lower supply). That is not a good recommendation.

No that is not what I am recommending .. RE-READ the thread ... I am recommending that a DW301 is plenty to run a full weight GN in the 10's on 80# injectors and that
the original question that a Walbro 400 is plenty to get the OP where he wants to go .. your the one that brought in the BSFC calcs with the wrong information.. i was just trying to bring to light that your 565 hp isn't correct for what the pump can actually flow.... because if it was .. it WOULD NOT be possible under any circumstance to run any faster than your hi 10 123 mph scenario... and I can tell you.. it has far exceeded that already.. so either your bsfc is off ( which it is in this case) and or the pump can actually support what the company says it can. There are plenty of cars running these pumps on E85 OVER 600hp .. like i made mention.. i know of at least 6 GN's that run this same setup .. DW301 on 80's .. all the cars are close and half of them are within 1-2 cars and run easy 10's SAFELY !

There were guys saying it can't support 400 hp or 500 hp.. plain nonsense

 

[BEATAV8]

No that is not what I am recommending ..

Well you haven't backed anything up, either with data or at least a calculation (regardless of whether the assumptions are conservative or aggressive).

You even said my car was "messed up" at 60 gal/hr when the vendor clearly publishes 63 gal/hr on their bench.

In the end, I said 10.90 and you said 10.50. Not exactly worlds apart.

You can carry on using .78 or whatever for your BSFC, and I will stick to .85. There's other threads here for that subject.

 

[V8killR4U]

Ok so back on subject. Anyone else running the subject matter 416 Pump and running low 10's?

 

[V8killR4U]

How do you get 13.5 volts to the pump at WOT? Do you just add a volt booster...

 

[696]

I haven't heard of anyone running low 10's. And I use a volt booster to run it up to 14.2 volts.

 

[V8killR4U]

I haven't heard of anyone running low 10's. And I use a volt booster to run it up to 14.2 volts.

Are you saying you know someone who does run the pump jus not low 10s. Would you mind sharing what they are running?

 

[696]

With the 416 pump, I will see if I can find where I saw it, but the flow sheet and info I have seen shows it should be able to hit 10's (lets say 10.99). Of course a volt booster will take you further but "low" 10's...I can't see that happening.

 

[KevinB]

So where are you getting this "Clean" power from that make the pumps run so well???

As far as injectors, on E-85 my car (stock internal motor) with a TE 60 was almost maxing out my #79's and I was running a best of 7.23 @ 93 mph. 120's are going in after the freshen up. #79 or #80's is where I would start with a stock motor and E-85 conversion.

You may be blowing through your converter. What's your slippage? I had a similar issue until I found more efficient converters. Something is definitely off with your setup.

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