eDist question

[Monty]

I read through all the eDist posts I could find, but I still have a couple of questions. Most of the posts seemed to be for LT1/45 or LS1/6 engines.

I am running a FAST SEFI, WB, ICC box. Since I would be eliminating the distributor, and hence my cam signal, I know I need a source for the cam signal for the edist. I though MSD has a distributor plug that would drive the oil pump and also has a output for the cam signal but I can't seem to find it on their website. Anyone have the part number for the MSD distributor plug with cam signal output for a wet sump?

Also, am I understanding correctly that I don't need to use any kind of ignition box at all (MSD DIS, etc)? I can simply use 8 LS1 coils? So all I'd need is to trigger the eDist from the FAST "points" wire, and then the eDist would fire the 8 LS1 "coil near plugs"? Are these LS1 coils powerful enough for use on a 20-25 psi turbo engine?

How does this compare to MSD's Coil Per Plug (PN 7600) system? I don't think that system would benefit me since I already have individual cylinder control with the FAST SEFI?

 

[JrTuner]

The eDist will control the LS1 style coils without an ignition control box. MSD part # 8514 should be a Chevy cam sync pluse plug. I know the LS1 style coils have been tested to 100 HP per cylinder. Craig from FAST would know better how far they have tested them. Maybe he will chime in here.

 

[Monty]

I would like to use the LS1 coil on plug arrangement, so that I can eliminate the need for an MSD box. Do I need the Universal eDist, or the LS1 direct fit?

 

[berrelauto]

The LS-1 coils are smart coils and have a driver in each coil. The universial EDIST(30-5000) has drivers in it and the LS-1 Direct fit (30-5001) has none.So to answer your question you can use either one. Prices are #30-5001 = 299.00 #30-5000 = 329.00

 

[Monty]

Thanks for the responses.

I finally got through to someone in FAST tech support today, and they seemed to indicate that the LS1 Direct Fit (30-5001)unit was the only one I could use if I wanted to use the LS1 coils. He said if I got the Universal Fit unit (30-5000), I would also need to use an MSD DIS-4 box, along with the appropriate MSD Ford style DIS coils.

He did say that the LS1 setup was the way to go, so that's what I'll do. He seemed confident they could handle the increased spark resistance caused by the increased cylinder pressure generated by forced induction.

 

[Craig Smith]

Actually either of the eDist part numbers will work with the LS1 coil setup, but the LS1 version is a bit cheaper as it doesn't have the drivers in it for running conventional coils.

If the 1200 hp engine in your sig is the one you intend to run these coils on, you are getting a bit past marked territory for these coils. I know that they have been used on a nitrous motor making about 1100 and worked well, but I don't know if you can draw any conclusions from that as to how it would work on a turbo engine at this approximate power level.

 

[Monty]

Thanks for the responses. Thanks Craig for clarifying that, yes, I want to run the eDist/LS1 coils on my SBC 427 TT. I'm currently using an MSD Digital 6+ with a MSD HVC coil, I'd think/hope the individual coils would be as capable since they would have much longer to saturate compared to the single coil?

I guess I'll be the guinea pig....Truth be told, I don't run more than about 10psi on the street because it gets too crazy on hard street tires. The 1200hp was at about 22psi w/ 93 octane on the Fast Times dyno.

 

[Monty]

I just ordered 8 LS1 coils, part number 12558948. Their list price is $37.33 each. Is this about what everyone else is paying?

Do I need to order anything else from Chevy to do this? I have a eDist 30-5001 LS1 Direct Fit on order. Do I need any special connectors? Spark Plug wires? Harnesses?

I also have an MSD cam synch/distributor plug for a wet sump SBC on order, MSD Part number 8514, is this the correct one I need?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Tony sy2356]

Instead of the MSD cam plug/sensor you may consider this.

I've used a distributor assembly from a 96+ Vortec v8/v6. They are basicly a 12V high-low hall effect switch. That setup will work with the LS1 style e-dist for sure.

I trimmed off the posts that the wires would normally plug onto to make it look pretty . They are relativley easy to find at any local junkyard. I can post some pics if anyone is interested.


Tony

 

[Monty]

I've had some other people mention the Vortec "distributor plug" to me, I'd definitely be interested in seeing what you've got.

I guess I'm ignorant to the fact as to whether the cam synch is Hall effect or not.

My current setup uses an MSD flying crank trigger, and an MSD Pro-Billet distributor with all but tte #1 reluctor removed for sequential operation, along with an MSD Digital 6+/HVC coil.

I just don't want to send my ECM into FAST if I don't have to...

 

[Monty]

I recieved my Edist (30-5001) LS1 direct fit today, along with the MSD distributor plug w/ cam synch. I should get the LS1 coils early next week. I am using a FAST SEFI also.

The MSD distributor plug uses a hall-effect cam synch, and the Metricpak connector on it has 4 pins, while the connector for the eDist has 3 pins. I'm assuming I'll need to change the connector on the eDist harness to a 4 pin Metripak, but does anyone know which wires go to which connector location?

Also, the directions for the MSD distributor plug describe using the coil per plug system and software to synch the cam position, does anyone know the prodedure to use with the eDist? The eDist just references the LS1 cam synch sensor.

Has anyone done this before on an SBC using this combination of parts?

Thnaks.

 

[JrTuner]

You are going to have to get some info from MSD on what the 4 wires are and the type of plug they are using. Then you should be able to set the sync with a multi-meter. You are also going to have to have your sync pulse configured in the ECU for a hall-effects if you plan on running the injection in SEFI mode. You will have to send it back to FAST.

 

[Monty]

Well, if anyone is interested, the pin outs for the MSD 8514 cam synch distributor plug is:

A = Not Used
B = Ground
C = Hall-Effect 5v input(+)
D = Hall-Effect Signal (-)

Now I guess I just need to send my FAST SEFI box back to FAST to have them convert it for a hall-effect cam synch signal...

 

[Craig Smith]

Juist make sure that you power this with 5 volts, not with 12. It won't work with 12. I'm about 99% sure of that.

 

[Monty]

Craig,

I called FAST this morning again to aske a couple of questions. I left a messgae on Mike's voicemail,

Maybe you can help. Am I correct in assuming I need to send my FAST SEFI box back to you to have it converted for a hall-effect cam synch signal? I am currently using a modifoed MSD distributor with all the reluctors except #1 removed.

Where would I get a 5v power source, from the 30-5001 eDist? or the FAST SEFI ECU?

 

[Craig Smith]

Yes, you are correct. Mike should call you back shortly and get that arranged for you.

Pin E1 from the ECU is a 5 volt output used for the MAP and TPS sensors (as well as a few other things internal to the ECU). You could even tie into the 5 volt wires from the MAP sensor or the TPS and be OK.

I am surprised that they didn't make this thing work with a 12 volt supply. It is originally a part of the CPC ignition system they are now offering. Perhaps they didn't suspect at first that people would be buying the cam sync plug without the ignition system as well??? Who knows.

 

[Monty]

Craig, thank you for the response. That is what I was thinking as well.

I'm curious to know if the LS1 coils have a built-in dwell circuit, or if they rely on the ECM trigger signal for total coil on-time?


Also, is the pinout for the 30-5001 eDist box different from the 30-5000 box? The reason I ask is that I had a copy of the eDist pinout before I ordered it, but the one I recieved with the 30-5001 box has the cylinder coil wires in a different order.

 

[PCS74]

Just found this post in a link from syty.

We have run alot of the LS1 coil steps, mostly Honda, toyota and rotary. They perform very well up to ~ 150hp per cylinder(30psi range in these engines, some run gas, some methanol). Many will hang in till around 180hp per cylinder, but at that point they become very unpredictable, some work most won't.

We have better results with grounding the zero volt wire along with the standard ground, but they are still not reliable at that level.

We have used the MSD pro power HVC coils(big, heavy and not ideal DIS coils) in place of the LS1's with good results at over 200hp per cylinder(Jotech's 800+ wheel hp civic). They have since been replaced with CDI.

Use the best quality wiring, terminals and connector bodies you can get, keep the wires as short as possible use the absolute minimum amount of connectors, make sure all your connections are very stable(proper termination and engagement), dry and clean and they will work fine.

Not sure how fast e-dist works, we use motec, but we set dwell at 3 to 3.5ms at max V.


Chris S

 

[Craig Smith]

GM coils of this design seem to have a built-in dwell time limit. If you apply a dwell signal and the coil decides it's too long, it just fires the coil. When this happens, you basically lose control of spark timing. This was in issue for us in the development stages of the eDist and we experienced many loud bangs out of a tailpipe before we got a handle on it. The timeout value seems to vary among the variations of these coils.

 

[PCS74]

Out of dozens of vehicles we have installed them on we only experienced a popping with one vehicle. We never traced it to the coils as the pop was rare occurence, something to look into though, thanks.

Chris S