F.A.S.T.-How to fix difficult starting after heat soak?

fast4d

New Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
After a long drive then turning off the engine for 5 min it often refuse to start. I pulled a plug and it's NOT soaked/flooded. Usually I can get it started after cranking it a while and give it 50% throttle.


What the general strategy in the cranking vs CTS table ,etc.?
 
At full temp, the cranking pulsewidth probably won't need to be much higher than the pulsewidth at idle. I'd compare the two and work from there and see how it goes.
 
Just to expand a bit on what Craig said, I seem to remember from an old Quadrajet (remember those) book that when you start a cold car, it likes an A/F ratio around 5:1. As the engine gets warmer, the ratio approaches about 13 or 14 :1. So, like Craig said, see what your PW is at idle when hot, that should probably be close to your starting PW at that temp.

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
 
And just to further expand a bit on what Bob said, :D he's right, but don't expect to see any readings from the O2 sensor during cranking. There will never be enough airflow across the sensor.

As a matter of fact, I don't even think you could anyway... the O2 heater doesn't begin to stabilize until the ECU is in run mode anyway. Never mind... I'm rambling now. :eek: Bob is right. Have a great weekend.
 
you guys crack me up! :D

I looked at the dashboard at idle. Which is pulse width? BPW, right? anyway, BPW is 4.1ms.

So I should set cranking fuel vs. Coolant temp to 4.1ms? right now I have it set at 37ms at 5 deg F and at 27ms @ 190deg F. Pretty much a straight line across with a slight downslope.
 
If you idle at 4.1 ms, then you'll probably want your cranking PW around that too.

Now I'm confused on one thing, though- I think there is BPW and inj PW- one of them is double the other, and I don't know which one applies to the cranking table. But if your table is at 27 right now, I would bring it down to about 8 ms (4.1 * 2) and I'll bet you have a much easier time starting, you'll at least be in the ballpark.

And since EricStage1 is around 6 ms, that sounds like the ballpark you want to be in.

Let us know how it works out...

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
 
27 mS even with a small injector is a TON of fuel.

To clarify, there is BPW and HR BPW. One is High Resolution BPW. I don't remember off the top of my head which is which, but one of them is half of the other on bank to bank systems only. If you have a sequential system they are the same. They may also be the same value on bank to bank Buick systems since they only fire once per combustion cycle even on a bank to bank.

Whichever of the two values is the smaller is the total pulsewidth for the cycle. So, if you are idling at 4.1 mS and trying to stuff 6 times that amount of fuel in the engine, I think this is probably a big issue in your starting problem. Without trying to sound too critical, you are lucky you haven't started a fire in your exhaust system. I did that recently on my own motor on the dyno. The heater element in the O2 sensor lit the unburned fuel in the pipe and spit big gnarly flames out the header.

Drop your cranking fuel to 5 or 6 mS at operating temp, taper the whole curve accordingly, and see what happens. I predict that things will work well for you.... let us know.
 
This explains alot. The car would idle rich even when warmed then go back to normal after I drive it for a min or so.

It also explains another start related problem. I can't explain it but the engine made some strange sounds when it starts. Quite violent, actually.

I hope it didn't do any damage washing out the cylinders with that much fuel. I just changed the oil and detected a little gasoline odor. Didn't use the car except for the few days I've spent tuning so far.

Thanks everyone. I'm making much progress. Drivability issues are just about non-existent. Next I'm going after the power!
 
Top