Flying the white flag. I surrender

[BARRACUDA1968]

Maybe you should try the RJC head gasket system.

I'm hoping to not have to tear the motor down right now but if I do I'll go with a different head gasket.

I did look at the RJC's during the build. I don't think they had the right size for me? I'm .045 on a 30 over. If they do I didn't see it.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Old SBC trik. Dimple the ft and back edges of the block. Helps grip the rubber seal.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

This picture illustrates my theory. This is the driver front corner. The head gasket protrudes past the head a hair. Do you think it's possible for oil to wick through these layers below the silicone? All 4 corners are like this and oil is sitting in a pocket just to the left of the gasket in this picture inside the lifter galley. I don't blame crank case pressure for this but how about the heat differences between cast and aluminum then some hot oil? Before I re-install it I wondering if anyone thinks I'm on to something and if so what can I do about it? I know I had oil leaking out this corner and we saw zero signs of a leak at the silicone juncture. I can't get my finger in there to seal it from the outside. One suggestion that was made by my buddy the machinist is to cut the head gasket somehow where the oil pools at the corner of the head where the drain back hole is. The bend it down. This would let the oil drain better and stop oil from traveling along the head gasket from the center of the block to the front and back of the motor. Basically eliminate the bridge so to speak. Not sure what would cut through this gasket though? Hand cutter's would never do it and maybe it's not necessary? Just throwing this out there.



The head gasket inside the lifter galley, all 4 corners are like this, the rears have standing oil in them right now.

 

[Pronto]

Put Flepro's on it. Seal the rails with dimpling as Chuck suggested. Drive it and enjoy the car.

 

[Jerryl]

Sorry if i missed it but there does not appear to be any solicone in that corner area?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

In that 2nd pic, is the hole behind the p. rod the head drain hole?
If so, I'd pull the p rods in that area, plug the valley up w/ towels, rags, etc. I'd then go from the top of the head with a long carbide bit, and cut that gasket back to match the head bore.
Dip the bit in axle brg grease, and that will help hold the chips....
Or, as mentioned... Shitcan the trik of the month gasket, and use what we know works...

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Sorry if i missed it but there does not appear to be any solicone in that corner area?

I've already cleaned up most of the silicone. I use a pick and clean up those corner areas until it's like new then brake clean the sh$t out of it using a rag and screwdriver. I'm not that far yet though.

In that 2nd pic, is the hole behind the p. rod the head drain hole?
If so, I'd pull the p rods in that area, plug the valley up w/ towels, rags, etc. I'd then go from the top of the head with a long carbide bit, and cut that gasket back to match the head bore.
Dip the bit in axle brg grease, and that will help hold the chips....
Or, as mentioned... Shitcan the trik of the month gasket, and use what we know works...

Yes that is the drain hole. You got me looking at the picture a little better and it looks like there's a hole in the gasket below the drain in the head. I just went out to the shop and there is a hole in the gasket below the hole in all 4 corners. Probably no need to mess with it then. Doubt I'd be able to get the gasket flush with the block like suggested. It's pretty tight, at least I don't have the proper tool to do the job. It would be better than what I have now but I didn't realize the gasket had a hole in it. Can't see it from the top with the valve covers off or maybe I was looking at the wrong angle?? These gaskets really shouldn't impede oil flow back to the lifter galley like I thought they were. Now oil is sitting in the back corners on the little ledge between the bottom of the head and head gasket. Mainly because the motor is tilted that way.

Chuck I'm going to take another run at it for now. I don't really have the time to pull the heads right now and I've missed fall racing the last 2 years because my car has been down. If I do new head gaskets I'm pulling it. I'd rather do them on the stand so my work is more accurate. I know guy's do it with the motor in the car etc but I can have the motor out in about the same time it would take to undress the motor in the car for a head gasket job. It will take more time all in all but after re-torqueing these heads once in the car I just don't know how a person get's an accurate TQ on the bolts because the rear head bolts are a bi$ch to get to in the car. And it would be a perfect time to really check fitment of the intake front and back too.

Hopefully changing up a few things this time will yield better results. We are going to use the rubbers, change from Ultra Gray to the right stuff and really focus on the corners primarily down in the crevice where the top edge of the head gasket is. I'm hoping the rubbers will really push the silicone down in there. I'll be happy even if we slow it down a bunch just so I can get through the season and go do some racing with TT/Ameasap (Bo) we've been talking about it for 2 years but I've been broke one way or another. I'm going to make it this year. Then if I need to I'll pull it this winter like I do every winter.

 

[Jerryl]

Ok . . . So I used Cometics, taken apart, cleaned and sprayed each layer with Hylomar. Put cheap silicone in the corners, and used the rubber seals. No leaks. Got lucky? Maybe . . But I can't be the only one in the Buick world.

It is my believe that the Cometics are not the cause of the oil leak, if the indicated area is where the leak in fact originates.

There is about a 1/8 inch wide sealing area BEFORE the gasket that should provide adequate sealing.

My $0.02

 

[Jerryl]

. . . . . There is about a 1/8 inch wide sealing area BEFORE the gasket that should provide adequate sealing. . . .

 

[Lil Truck]

I have used the Cometic HG twice with good results. Iron heads and TA heads like yours. On the TA I installed dry with RTV on the all layers of the return holes and the black RTV on the rail and corners. I did notice some oil seepage in the first 500 miles, as I worked out my PCV and breather situation. Not sure if it could have seeped through the layers or just off the breathers and down the valve covers. Once I fixed the PCV and breathers the leaks were gone! Give it some time on the next round and make sure your crank case is breathing well !!! P.S. on the Iron heads I used the copper coat spray on all layers and RTV around the return holes zero leaks on that installation from day 1.

Good luck, hang in there!

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Well I sure hope I have better luck this time. I think we're going to install it in the morning.

 

[Pronto]

For me the rubber gaskets were holding the manifold up and caused a sucky vacuum leak. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't like the drain hole situation I saw with the Cometics. I'm positive it was part of my oil leak situation. Got away from Cometics and sealed the manifold correctly and now I have very minor weeping from the pan gasket which I had anyway.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

That would be the only thing keeping me from using the rubbers. I'm going to dry fit it first to make sure I don't have the same issue. I was talking with Husek and he commented that the Felpro rubbers might be a bit taller than factory so I'll have to watch for that. It's a good point though.

 

[Pronto]

I could tell right away when the manifold was tried in without the rubbers. The bolts went right in the heads with no problem. They were very hard to start with the rubbers in.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

That's the way my manifold fits right now w/o rubbers but my manifold was drilled on the first build or my bolts would have never started so I have more room now to line the bolts up. Since then we've milled the intake but all is still good.

I'm hoping I have a little squish with the rubbers or I'm back to the same issue I have now. I want the rubbers to push in on the corners a bit to help get the silicone down where it needs to be.

 

[Pronto]

That also means you have more chance of the manifold misalignment with the ports. That extra slop is going to work against knowing the manifold sits where it needs to be.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Well installed the intake a few weeks back and then had to send my turbo off so I never got to drive it. Got the turbo back and put some miles on it and I'll be damned if the intake still leaks. We used "the right stuff" rubber gaskets. put the right stuff in all four corners then ran a small bead on the block. Installed the rubbers and ran a bead on top of the rubbers too. I measured the distance between the block and the bottom of the intake from the old silicone bead I pulled off and just the rubber pieces we installed covered the gap. I don't think I'm leaking at the front or back of intake, as matter of fact I know I'm not.

I still have oil trailing down the back of the head along the block on the passengers side and the front drivers side. I even had my head mechanic for the dealership help me with the install.

I know it's been said that you can't leak or weep oil through cometics but I have my doubts now. I don't think it's leaking down around the pistons etc but I do think it's weeping between the layers at the edges of the heads then runs down and follows the head gasket to the center of the block and then falls and blows back on the starter. I have dye in the oil so I can see it plain as day.

I cleaned my breathers, double checked PCV and even cut the baffled breather grommets so they are wide open. I don't have blow by either, heck my breathers are not even getting oil soaked like I figured they would after opening up the grommets.

I'm just going to drive it the rest of the year and pull it this winter. If it's the manifold it's obvious I can't fix it with the motor in the car or it just don't fit right anymore with all the changes. Either way I need to get it on the stand so I can see what the heck is going on.

I'm done wrenching this year just going to drive it and have some fun. The oil leak isn't bad at all but that kind of stuff drives me nuts.

The good thing is I have a buddy who stores his car in my back shop for the winter so in return he does some labor for me so he doesn't have to spend any money. He's a good wrench and will be happy to put my motor on the stand for me. I've done it twice and getting kind of sick of it.

 

[Pronto]

I think you need to start with an unmodified manifold. You can spend a week here searching Cometic gasket threads. Many ways to skin that cat.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

You could be right on the manifold. I have a Champion intake so I was hoping it's not a paper weight. I can always get the felpro intake gaskets from Nick. I can get different thickness with those. Then I'll just baffle the PCV from underneath.

I did a Cometics search on Google and found several people with the same issue I'm having. What stuck in my head is a couple guy's went to Felpro and problem solved. Two other guy's used Lucas oil stop leak and it fixed their problem. I don't like snake oil so I didn't try that. One guy said his car quick leaking after driving it several hundred miles.

At any rate the motor needs to be on the stand so I can see how everything fits. My engine builder who I've used many times commented that the intake fit perfect when he assembled it. I've made 3 attempts with the same results. Just can't imagine my intake could be that far off that using the method we used to install it would stop it from leaking?

 

[Lil Truck]

If you did not use copper spray on all layers of the Cometics chances are that is where the oil is weeping from!

I thought the leak I still had to fix on my motor was the rear main due to the knurled forged crank? I was going to change it with a Viton seal, but after several cleanings ang inspections now that I have a lift in my shop guess what? It's the Cometics! They are doing exactly the same as you are describing! Mine is not to bad just a few drops. I have just decided to clean it up regularly until I have a reason to pull the motor. I did another motor with the spray, it never leaked a drop from anywhere!