Fuel pump problems

[japSW20]

ok just hooked up my test lgiht to the green/white stripe on the ecm and it has no power.

 

[japSW20]

ok so theres no power coming out of pin a-1 from the ecu,i bride power to it at the relay amd pump turns on,but the car wont start it has spark and fuel.im guessing my ecu is not working or it has no power? i did the self diagnosis and it didnt flash at all.what is the main power for the ecu?

 

[Sam Colalillo]

First let me say I have never worked on a hot air car and my knowledge of them is very low. I am hoping others will step up and help you out with those photos you posted. That first picture looks like it goes to the oil pressure sensor, the others I am not sure. They all look like test leads.

I am thinking your ECM is going bonkers, letting power to go to the relay continuously (as you stated in a previous post you had power to the pump all the time with the key in the run position) and then not at all. This is why I wanted to know for sure you were not getting power at the relay for two seconds and that this wire is not shorted out, before I recommend that your ECM took a dump.

You should have power at the green wire for two seconds with the ignition key in the run position. The ECM tells it to power up the relay for two second by letting voltage flow through the A1 connector at the ECM. Then when you turn the key all the way forward and crank the engine over other things are triggered to tell the fuel pump what to do.

Hope some other will chime in and help you out, currently I think it is a good chance you have a bad ECM.

 

[rodman99999]

Make certain your fusible link is good by checking for 12V at the orange wire(440a/main power) going to c16 on the ECM. check for good grounds at ECM a12, d10, d1. That'll at least tell you if the ECM SHOULD be working. Did you say you jumpered ALDL terms. A & B(ignition "on") and didnt get any flashes on the S.E.S light(should flash "12")? If it didn't- Did you check the ECM fuse? By the way: someone stated in here that the green/white wire only gets power for two seconds. That waire will ony get power for 2 seconds IF the car doesn't start. If the ECM gets the correct pulses from the ignition module, its internal fuel pump relay keeps that wire hot. That's what keeps the external(fender-mounted) fuel pump relay triggered.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Hey Rodman9999,
Am I correct in stating “only turn the ignition switch to the run position and not rotated all the way forward to crank the engine over, you will only get power for two seconds to the green wire”, correct?

By the way thanks for helping me out, for some reason I just want to help this guy figure out what the hell is wrong with his car.

Currently the way I understand it, he is not getting power from the ECM for two seconds like he should be when he turns the key to the run position. Next when he turns the ignition switch further, to crank the engine over, the ECM will keep on energizing the internal fuel pump relay drive, which will supply power to the green wire, as long as he is cranking the engine and the ECM is getting the reference pulses from the ignition module, or the car starts running.

I am not sure if he has determined whether or not he has short in this green wire going to the ECM. JapSW20 did you apply power at the end of the green wire that connects into the ECM (connection A1 on ECM) and the relay turned on, if you did than I would say this circuit is good.

Bottom line I believe you should get power for two seconds at that green wire just by turning the key to the run position. You are not getting that power for two seconds this is why I think your ECM is dead.

Definitely check those things rodman9999 told you to check before you plunk down the cash for a new ECM.

 

[rodman99999]

YUP- That's correct. As long as the engine is being cranked, or is running- he should have voltage at the green/white wire, as he will have C3I reference pulses. The ECM fires all six injectors together until it gets signals from the cam/crank sensors, then goes sequencial. Just turning it to "on" SHOULD give 2 seconds of power at that wire. If he doesn't have that, or any codes when doing the ALDL test, all the voltages/grounds/fuse/link are OK, and nothing's grounded that shouldn't be- looks like time for a new ECM.

 

[japSW20]

YUP- That's correct. As long as the engine is being cranked, or is running- he should have voltage at the green/white wire, as he will have C3I reference pulses. The ECM fires all six injectors together until it gets signals from the cam/crank sensors, then goes sequencial. Just turning it to "on" SHOULD give 2 seconds of power at that wire. If he doesn't have that, or any codes when doing the ALDL test, all the voltages/grounds/fuse/link are OK, and nothing's grounded that shouldn't be- looks like time for a new ECM.

i think its the ecm,theres no power at the green/white for two seconds,i jumped a wire directly from the battery to the relay and the pumped turned on,also the fuse for te ecm is good,i did turn the key onto the on position and checked a couple wires going into the ecm and some had power (forgot colors though)Also i remember before the car started with problems,i was charging the battery with everything connected then when it charged i went to crank and the problem started,could that of been the problem?

 

[japSW20]

Make certain your fusible link is good by checking for 12V at the orange wire(440a/main power) going to c16 on the ECM. check for good grounds at ECM a12, d10, d1. That'll at least tell you if the ECM SHOULD be working. Did you say you jumpered ALDL terms. A & B(ignition "on") and didnt get any flashes on the S.E.S light(should flash "12")? If it didn't- Did you check the ECM fuse? By the way: someone stated in here that the green/white wire only gets power for two seconds. That waire will ony get power for 2 seconds IF the car doesn't start. If the ECM gets the correct pulses from the ignition module, its internal fuel pump relay keeps that wire hot. That's what keeps the external(fender-mounted) fuel pump relay triggered.

yup i jumped the ses pins and dint get any code at all,is there any diagram for the pinout on the ecm? i really don know which the wires by there pin :tongue:

 

[rodman99999]

Did you check the fusible link by looking for 12V on the orange wire going to the ECM, and the ECM fuse? The three ECM ground wires are all black/white. Be certain you have continuity to ground on all of them. It'd be kewl(cheaper anyway) if you somehow took out the link when you were charging the battery. Look for shorts to ground on everything.

 

[japSW20]

ok checked the orange wire,it has power and so does a purple one a couple more,im guessing the ecm is shot the car does have spark and fuel.im to the point where im going to load it on my trailer and take it to someone,on the side note anyone in central florida wanna take on the task??

 

[Sam Colalillo]

ok checked the orange wire,it has power and so does a purple one a couple more,im guessing the ecm is shot the car does have spark and fuel.im to the point where im going to load it on my trailer and take it to someone,on the side note anyone in central florida wanna take on the task??

What I am confused the car has spark and FUEL now. You know you have good connections at the fuel pump relay (the groungd and power wires are fine), because you jumpered the green wire and the fuel pump turned on. I never really understood if you bridged power to this wire at the ecm connector or, if you put power to the relay.

I just wanted you to make sure the green wire going to your ECM was not shorted out. Did you ever circuit test this wire? If you jumpered 12 volts to the green wire at the location where it plugs into the ECM I am going to say that wire is not shorted out if your fuel pump turned on.

Next find out how much a remanufactured ECM costs for you car, I think this is what I would do if I were in your shoes.

 

[japSW20]

What I am confused the car has spark and FUEL now. You know you have good connections at the fuel pump relay (the groungd and power wires are fine), because you jumpered the green wire and the fuel pump turned on. I never really understood if you bridged power to this wire at the ecm connector or, if you put power to the relay.

I just wanted you to make sure the green wire going to your ECM was not shorted out. Did you ever circuit test this wire? If you jumpered 12 volts to the green wire at the location where it plugs into the ECM I am going to say that wire is not shorted out if your fuel pump turned on.

Next find out how much a remanufactured ECM costs for you car, I think this is what I would do if I were in your shoes.

i jumped a cable straight to the relay,i never checked the wire but i figured theres no point since there is no power coming out of the ecm to trigger the relay,i PMed a few people on her that had ECU's for sale.and for those interested you could see pics of the car in the members rides section under not your average t-type

 

[japSW20]

:biggrin: Ok guys finally fixed it,almost dropped it off at the dealer to get fixed but decided to look over it one more time,and i find a missing pin on the connectors! took it apart and solderd in a new connector and voila!

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Congratulations. thanks for posting the pics.

And to think you almost gave up :redface: Looks like you just save yourself a couple of bucks. bet that feels pretty good to ya.

Good job!! :biggrin: