Fuel rail Debate

[THE WRAITH]

Ok, on my 86 GN my current fuel set up is an aeromotive 1001 that "Y"s at gas tank and has 2 #8 lines running to the "Stock" fuel rail.. I plumbed both ends of the fuel rail with #8 to each side. I have a stock location regulator with a #6 return line. I have been debating with a friend of mine who I admit knows more than I do about the setups on turbo cars... The debate is that the lines feeding the "stock" rail creates a problem that will lean out a cyclinder. That I need to put champion fuel rails with the regulator in the back or drop off and cap the fuel line on the passenger side. I can see where the champion fuel rail with the regulator in the back would be more balanced and effecient, but i dont see a problem with my current set up. Just curious to see what you other guys have to say about it and where the best place is to get the champion fuel rails (price) if I so decide to go that way. Thanks in advance for the imput.

 

[turbofabricator]

Plug the stock regulator port, and weld in a -6AN fitting under the coil pack. Problem solved. Use an external regulator. The stock rails will flow more than enough with this mod.

 

[tom j]

My stock rail measured .625 inside diameter when I cut off the factory end and I believe I read here on the board that the champion measures under .500

 

[turbodave231]

I don't agree that the 2 feeds will cause a lean condition on any one injector.

I'm guessing that your buddy thinks that the regulator causes a localized drop in pressure near #1/3 injectors. In order for that to happen the fuel rail would need to to have a great deal of restriction. Ruling out that the rail is undersized, fuel pressure in the rail should be nearly equal at all points.


Here is my reasoning: The stock fuel line feeds the passenger side of the rail and fuel flows around the rail to all injectors. As pressure rises above the regulator set point, the regulator opens and bleeds off pressure (and fuel) into the return line on the driver side of the rail.

If you buddy's theory is right, the stock setup should be worse for a "localized" pressure drop. The fuel would need to travel around the whole rail to get to #1 injector and the pressure regulator.

Your setup would be better because you are introducing pressure at both ends of the rail!! I'd leave the rail alone.

 

[V8Assassin]

Which is better

Not to hijack, but this question has been bothering me for a while. I bought the champion rails with the stock regulator placement. I notice most of the faster TSM guys are running the rails with the reg at the back. We have set mine up like the stock setup with one feed at pass. and the reg around at drivers. Is there any significant difference in performance between the two in a motor that should go low 10's or high 9's. ? The feed is 10an and the return is 6, and will be run with a weldon 2015 and weldon controller.

 

[gnxtc2]

Not to hijack, but this question has been bothering me for a while. I bought the champion rails with the stock regulator placement. I notice most of the faster TSM guys are running the rails with the reg at the back. We have set mine up like the stock setup with one feed at pass. and the reg around at drivers. Is there any significant difference in performance between the two in a motor that should go low 10's or high 9's. ? The feed is 10an and the return is 6, and will be run with a weldon 2015 and weldon controller.

I think the stock regulator can not handle the extra flow and is a restriction.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[V8Assassin]

I think the stock regulator can not handle the extra flow and is a restriction.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Sorry, should have been more clear, it is a billet adj reg just in stock location.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

My stock rail measured .625 inside diameter when I cut off the factory end and I believe I read here on the board that the champion measures under .500

Is would make me sick if this is true, it's one of the reasons I ditched the stock rail because I figured they would make the inside larger since it's an AFTERMARKET RAIL!!!!

Cutting off the passenger fitting end sounds better and better every time I read these threads and doing what Turbofabricator said would be cream on top of that.

 

[gnxtc2]

Ok, on my 86 GN my current fuel set up is an aeromotive 1001 that "Y"s at gas tank and has 2 #8 lines running to the "Stock" fuel rail.. I plumbed both ends of the fuel rail with #8 to each side. I have a stock location regulator with a #6 return line. I have been debating with a friend of mine who I admit knows more than I do about the setups on turbo cars... The debate is that the lines feeding the "stock" rail creates a problem that will lean out a cyclinder. That I need to put champion fuel rails with the regulator in the back or drop off and cap the fuel line on the passenger side. I can see where the champion fuel rail with the regulator in the back would be more balanced and effecient, but i dont see a problem with my current set up. Just curious to see what you other guys have to say about it and where the best place is to get the champion fuel rails (price) if I so decide to go that way. Thanks in advance for the imput.

Out of curiosity, why did you run 2 -8 lines from the back??? You could run one -8 or -10 to the front and "Y'd" it in the engine compartment.

The way you have it plumbed, it seems that it is not balanced. Where the fuel entered on the driver's side, the regulator is right at the inlet.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[tom j]

My stock rail measured .625 inside diameter when I cut off the factory end and I believe I read here on the board that the champion measures under .500

Is would make me sick if this is true, it's one of the reasons I ditched the stock rail because I figured they would make the inside larger since it's an AFTERMARKET RAIL!!!!

Cutting off the passenger fitting end sounds better and better every time I read these threads and doing what Turbofabricator said would be cream on top of that.

I have a -10 welded on for the feed and a -8 welded on were the shreader valve used to be for the return with a weldon 2035 and it has supported 580rwhp that equates to about 750fwhp and with e85. If it would be regular gas you would have no problem supporting 1000fwhp IMO. Also I have seen no signs of #1 cylinder going lean. SAVE YOUR MONEY AND SPEND IT ELSEWHERE!

 

[turbofabricator]

Guys are running 9's on completely STOCK fuel lines and rail. At EVERY union, i.e. filter (in and out), frame rail, fuel rail, the saginaw fittings neck down to a .257" i.d. WHY does anyone NEED a -10AN feed line? A single -8AN at 60+psi fuel pressure will feed WAY over 1000 HP. Sprint car (750hp) guys use a single -6AN feed line to their Hillborn barrel valve. They also run alcohol which requires DOUBLE the volume of fuel and alcohol has a higher specific gravity than gasoline. ONE single -8 AN is more than just about any turbo V6 can handle. If a stock 1/4" (.257") fuel line can feed a 750hp engine, don't you think that a -10AN feed line is like taking a shower under the Niagra falls? :biggrin:

 

[THE WRAITH]

Out of curiosity, why did you run 2 -8 lines from the back??? You could run one -8 or -10 to the front and "Y'd" it in the engine compartment.

The way you have it plumbed, it seems that it is not balanced. Where the fuel entered on the driver's side, the regulator is right at the inlet.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

To answer that i would have to go into more history... this system used to have two pumps with each pump having a dedicated line to the fuel rail... the main pump ran all the time to the stock location... the second pump had a one way ball valve in it and a pressure switch on it so that when i hit 18lbs of boost the second pump would turn on to keep the car from running lean in high boost situations... an invention i dreamed up... It worked fine, but was intending to go faster and wanted to have ONE big pump... so I have a #10 to the pump and #10 to a "y" split into two #8s.... equal pressure all the time.

 

[tom j]

Guys are running 9's on completely STOCK fuel lines and rail. At EVERY union, i.e. filter (in and out), frame rail, fuel rail, the saginaw fittings neck down to a .257" i.d. WHY does anyone NEED a -10AN feed line? A single -8AN at 60+psi fuel pressure will feed WAY over 1000 HP. Sprint car (750hp) guys use a single -6AN feed line to their Hillborn barrel valve. They also run alcohol which requires DOUBLE the volume of fuel and alcohol has a higher specific gravity than gasoline. ONE single -8 AN is more than just about any turbo V6 can handle. If a stock 1/4" (.257") fuel line can feed a 750hp engine, don't you think that a -10AN feed line is like taking a shower under the Niagra falls? :biggrin:

I was told size matters:biggrin:

Kidding aside, I plan on running this fuel system with the next engine and I wanted to do it ounce.