Gas prices what a sham

[chevyII]

As most know OPEC cut oil production this month and everyone is pissed off about it. I just read a news article that said oil was being slowed a million barrels a day because they are starting to have a surplus to store. The real problem the article highlighted was The US cant refine it quick enough and that cretes the shortage. One article showed how gas refined in springfeild ILL cant be sold to Chicago because of the 15 types of blends for the different states. Also this is the kicker, the US has not built a new refinery in over 20 years!!! Now seeing how TEXACO just posted a 556% increase in profit and EXXON posted a 32% increase the math dosent add up. We are being ripped off by our own American oil companies. And there making hunderds of Millions off of this B.S. You dont hear the president bring up that on the five o clock news, oh ya hes the one raking in the dough. I always wondered who could donate 170 million to a campaign now I know.

 

[Russ Merritt]

Yup, really sucks we can't do anything about it! Now that they have got away with gettin the money, they will never give it up. Prices will stay high from now on. Isn't that nice? What hurts even worse, NO MORE ULTRA 94!

 

[MeanBuicks]

Look at the 2004 Fortune 500 list:

ExxonMobil: Moved up from 3rd to 2nd, displacing GM. Profits increased 87.7% between 2002 & 2003.

ChevronTexaco: Moved up from 7th to 6th. Profits increased 538.7% between 2002 & 2003.

ConocoPhillips: Moved up from 12th to 7th. (Profit increase N/A)

Valero Energy Moved up from 55th to 34th. Profits increased 579.2% between 2002 & 2003.

Marathon Oil: Moved up from 52nd to 35th. Profits increased 156% between 2002 & 2003.

Sunoco: Moved up from 154th to 123rd. (Profit increase N/A)


See the trend?

 

[GNandGS]

Uh, a lot of the profit is not generated here. China has had a BIG increase which gave Exxon a nice boost... and thats just China.

Their economy growth had/has/is at around 6% for a while but their production couldnt keep up. They basically doubled their importing of oil!

Whar are there... 110 diff unleaded blends in the US? Knock that down to about 10 and build a refinery or two and prices will drop like a rock.

S

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by chevyII
The real problem the article highlighted was The US cant refine it quick enough and that cretes the shortage. One article showed how gas refined in springfeild ILL cant be sold to Chicago because of the 15 types of blends for the different states. Also this is the kicker, the US has not built a new refinery in over 20 years!!!

Damn, you ARE the typical Gore voter. You JUST learned this?

Welcome to the world of the Clean Air Act. You can't bitch about how Republicans want to pollute the world then complain that there haven't been any refineries built in the last 20 years.

Do you think Bill Clinton's EPA would have let any new refineries be built? uhhh no.

 

[Red Regal T]

That's right..........clean air spearheaded by the tree huggers in California. They started all these different fuel mixtures which is one of the causes of the shortage and high prices. Then you got all these people who have to buy a bigger SUV (TRUCK) than their neighbor.

 

[chevyII]

Like I said Its no wonder Bush can raise a record 170 millon in campiagn money. Yes I did just figure out the problem why is it that our great learder wants to point the finger at OPEC? Oh thats right he wouldn't want the American people to know how his oil freinds are sticking it to the average consumer. I say make one clean blend and make it for all states and the problem is solved right? But it wont happen because of greedy-Bush and the oil boys.

 

[GNandGS]

Man, you didnt read any of that did you? The oil companies left on their own wouldnt have made all those blends!

FACT: Bush wasnt in office, or in control of ANY "blend making" when things went whacky.

wow.

 

[SinistrV6]

I work for "big oil" (ChevronTexaco) and drive a huge SUV (see sig). I don't like the price of gasoline anymore than you guys. Well, O.K., maybe a little more since it's good for my stock plan and therefore easier for me to reconcile. However, we still have the cheapest gasoline on the planet in the country where it costs the most to produce. Quitcherbitchin.

Our good friends at the EPA and DEQ are the root cause of your price increases. BTW, you will NEVER see another refinery built in the U.S. due to the restrictions required by EPA. It isn't cost effective.


Here's a good example of the foolishness that goes on daily due to the EPA.
An independent third party goes out through our refinery with an instrument (sniffer) to test for V.O.C. (volatile organic compound, if memory serves) leaks around all the valves in the refinery (over 1,000,000). If they get any readings (they frequently do, especially in LPG service) we have to make a "first attempt" to repair within 3 days. You've now spent time/labor/materials on the contractor, the operator who makes first attempt, and maintenance who makes further repairs as needed. Not too bad if it will keep fumes out of the air. I want clean air, too. Where it gets STUPID is the fact that they don't check the water draws at tanks where I dump HUNDREDS of gallons of gasoline
down an open drain (to our oil water sewer system) to get the water off of the bottom of the tanks and to make sure I get a representative sample of the tank!
I release more VOC in sampling ONE TANK than a hundred of those valves could release in 40 years!

Your government at work.

 

[Red Regal T]

Like I said.........thank the treehuggers for all these regulations and present and future fuel shortages.

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by SinistrV6
I work for "big oil" (ChevronTexaco) and drive a huge SUV (see sig). I don't like the price of gasoline anymore than you guys. Well, O.K., maybe a little more since it's good for my stock plan and therefore easier for me to reconcile. However, we still have the cheapest gasoline on the planet in the country where it costs the most to produce. Quitcherbitchin.

Our good friends at the EPA and DEQ are the root cause of your price increases. BTW, you will NEVER see another refinery built in the U.S. due to the restrictions required by EPA. It isn't cost effective.


Here's a good example of the foolishness that goes on daily due to the EPA.
An independent third party goes out through our refinery with an instrument (sniffer) to test for V.O.C. (volatile organic compound, if memory serves) leaks around all the valves in the refinery (over 1,000,000). If they get any readings (they frequently do, especially in LPG service) we have to make a "first attempt" to repair within 3 days. You've now spent time/labor/materials on the contractor, the operator who makes first attempt, and maintenance who makes further repairs as needed. Not too bad if it will keep fumes out of the air. I want clean air, too. Where it gets STUPID is the fact that they don't check the water draws at tanks where I dump HUNDREDS of gallons of gasoline
down an open drain (to our oil water sewer system) to get the water off of the bottom of the tanks and to make sure I get a representative sample of the tank!
I release more VOC in sampling ONE TANK than a hundred of those valves could release in 40 years!

Your government at work.

But, isn't their profit figured after these monies are spent. That's still quite a margin.

 

[ross87t]

Blame Canada!

 

[GNandGS]

Originally posted by whitehot84
But, isn't their profit figured after these monies are spent. That's still quite a margin.

Look, China has nearly doubled its importation... their economy is growing at around 6% (or was) but they too are short on refineries.

Thats just ONE country that is delivering a HUGE profit...

In Dec 2001 China announced the opening of doors for Exxon to compete with their local producers (AKA govt) and was estimated to gain 10% of their fuel market over ~4 years. I cant (didnt look much) for current data but it stands to reason that 10, 8, or even 5% of their market is a HUGE boost in Exxon profits.

But no, somehow its the US alone - where prices are the lowest, that gives them all their profit. Of course this is just EXXON!

Shawn

 

[Silver 6]

All I can figure is ChevyII has the DNC talking points list taped to the side of his monitor. Each time we shoot down one of their pot shots, he just posts another instead of any support for the original point.

This whole entry is a factless rant:

"Like I said Its no wonder Bush can raise a record 170 millon in campiagn money. Yes I did just figure out the problem why is it that our great learder wants to point the finger at OPEC? Oh thats right he wouldn't want the American people to know how his oil freinds are sticking it to the average consumer. I say make one clean blend and make it for all states and the problem is solved right? But it wont happen because of greedy-Bush and the oil boys."

We now have open records on donations and it shows the the ultra large donations, $1,000,000 or more go to the Democratic party on a ratio of 12:1 for the Republicans. Where the Republican party leads is in individual donations of $2000 or less. What that shows is the RNC has more money simply because more people donate.

President Bush didn't blame OPEC, that was YOUR guys. The President met with the representative from Saudi and they came to our support. Saudi has done this many times. Saudi says they will not let the oil market unbalance the world economies. They are increasing their production to fill shortfalls. Prices in my area fell right after.

We can't have one "clean blend" for all market. You lefties will not let it happen. Any change to clean air is seen as a bonus for "Big Oil" and another handout from the President. YOU already are on that line. Lets just take a short look back at the proposed changes for power plants. The special interest lefties came out like ants out of rotten wood.

It won't matter what the guy does. You will find blame to spread. There is always another talking point to hit.

 

[dhauser]

This is a great topic, and one which almost like "religion" to us car guys.

But, in the end, all we have here is a bunch of half-arguments, half-truths, and opinions which are clearly biased due to politics.

Look in the mirror, boys, YOU (including me) are the ones to blame. YOU! What have you EVER done in your lives to stand up and say you're not going to let the oil companies continue to practice outright price-fixing and manipulation of anti-trust laws and actions brought against them? When was the last time you wrote your congressman about this topic and presented lucid arguments? When was the last time you joined a grass-roots campaign to show the oil companies and our elected leaders that we're not going to take it anymore? When was the last time you demanded more of the auto manufacturers regarding fuel economy? When was the last time you led a protest against the EPA for some of their extremely idiotic ideas that cause such unbelievable inefficiency?

Do you really believe a 579% increase in profits is due just to selling oil to China? HAAA! What a farce! Do you really believe that every gas station runs out of gas at the exact same time and gets refilled at the exact same time so as to justify how prices always move almost completely in unison from station to station? HAAA! Do you really think having a lifelong oil man as the leader of our country is NOT a conflict of interest regarding this topic? HAAA! Man, get real, fellas.

WE let it happen. WE are to blame. And until WE get off our fat asses and do something about it, WE will continue to be screwed.

While I believe it is only fair for the oil companies to make a profit like every other capitalist company, there is something GRAVELY wrong with the way they do business, and the amount of money they spend on lobbyists, campaign contributions, lawyers, and outright BUYING judicial outcomes is only the tip of the iceberg. They are not the only ones who do this, I realize, but they are the topic of this thread.

If you aren't prepared to do something about it, there's no point in even having the discussion. Just pay up and shut the hell up.

*Got a little empassioned, there. Hehe. End rant*

 

[GNandGS]

I'll type slower...

China is just an example. Its just one country, one example, to counter the uh, ZERO example(s) from the other side of the argument - the one that somehow blames Bush. Duh. It just HAS to be Bush! lol. As if profits are bad for some reason.

What dear sir are you refering to as opinion in what I wrote? What I said was true!

Where YOU made the assumptions is in what I think of the oil companies. I dont think they are inherently evil, nor perfect. I havent made the argument for either case.

Just where do you think those profits come from? It isnt just the USA!

As for what *I* plan to do: vote for someone that would be for being self reliant. Im all for drilling in Alaska - they are too. Alternative "fuels"? Wonder who proposed all that money for R&D? Dont care for the Bush plan? Thats cool, vote for someone else - and if you could be specific about what they would do Im open to that as I have "Bush issues" on other topics (maybe even this one!). Of course there is another thread already started for that.

S

 

[dhauser]

It sure isn't going to be me who sits here and volleys pointlessly about who is to blame. It's me, and it's you, and it's all of us. Case clozzzzzzzzzzzed.

You can type as slow as you want if it makes you feel smarter.

 

[Maltman]

That's it....I'm converting my GN to electric!!!!!

Screw the oil companies!!!

...and I'm not using chapstick anymore either!!!

 

[GNandGS]

Originally posted by dhauser
It sure isn't going to be me who sits here and volleys pointlessly about who is to blame. It's me, and it's you, and it's all of us. Case clozzzzzzzzzzzed.

You can type as slow as you want if it makes you feel smarter.

I never handed any blame! Im not pointing any fingers BUT:

Blame? Problem? What problem?

To stay on track and on subject the critizism was for the profits taken by the Oil companies and how it must be the fault of Bush (according to a few). This is somehow supposed to be tied to the pump price increases alone.

I offer a counter to that goofy logic and you missed it. I never even said that your point about "US" being at "fault" was wrong... although I still dont see what the "fault" is exactly.

I said before, and Im repeating myself now..... I have shown where a big chunk of profits are coming from. Since I too agree that there must be SOME profit here in the US, Im open to logic and reason as to WHERE. All Im getting is "there has to be" while downlplaying the nearly doubled consumption in China (3rd largest importer?) and OTHER places.

Profits. Think about it... has there been a 500% drop in there operating cost? Gas pump price increase in the US by 500%? Nope. They are selling more in other markets. Fine with me! I havent even verified the exact % so thats not a quote btw.

There are many reasons, some related to each other, why prices domestically are high - but still lower (more affordable) than most any other place on earth.

S

 

[dhauser]

I didn't miss anything. I chose not to respond to you because you want to be argumentative and sit here and debate all day long and all I wanted to do was get something off my chest. I did, and I'm done. Sooo, buh bye.